Don't you think it is about time for something more.......EBT or WPY?

[ebtbob]

Dusten,

      I would LOVE to see an EBT mike done by anyone.   I would especially love to see Bachmann do them as my Bachmann locos are the best that I own in On30,  including my two MMI K27s.
       However,  I would be extremely surprised to see Bachmann do such a large engine.    Let me suggest a possible EBT engine to do in On30.   #11 was a 2-6-2.   This engine disappeared from the EBT sometime around WWII and its fate is unknown.   But......the size of the engine would make it a great selection in On30.

[Dusten Barefoot]

#12 is the largest one so far

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

I would really like to see the 2-6-2.  The drawings I've seen show a loco shorter than the 2-8-2, which would make it better able to handle the notoriously tight curves on many On30 layouts.

The SR&RL 2-6-2 would also be great.

Manager

[Charlie Mutschler]

Why leave out the Sumpter Valley or Uintah if you want mikes?  Two of the SV ALCOS are extant, the Baldwins were, alas, all scrapped.  And then Uintah 40 would have looked quite at home on the White Pass....

One serious point that needs to be made is the Bachmann team, like any manufacturer, has to sell enough of the product to make it profitable.  They seem to be doing well, judging from the number of people I know who have several of their locomotives, many of whom have widened them out to On3.  At least one gentleman has a project to narrow one of the 2-4-4T Forneys to On2.  So the Bachmann locos seem to be loved. 

But the big engines require big curves.  There is just no way around this.  I sigh whenever I see the inquiry about "Kinda like XYZ Manufacturer's model, but able to go around 15 inch curves on EZ Track."  I don't care who makes it, Bachmann or someone else, if it is to be a decent model of an EBT or White Pass 2-8-2 (or the SV 2-8-2s), it will not run comfortably on 15 inch curves.  Probably not even on anything under 22 curves, and that will have been gained by use of blind center driver tires, and whatever else the design team can work into an On30 model - probably something like the axles on the Fn3 K-27.  Many On3 modelers feel that mikes need a minimum of 40 inches, and 45 inch radius curves are better still.  So if an On30 version of a White Pass 70, USA 190, or EBT 16 can be built that will look convincing, I suspect it will not negotiate the 18 inch radius curves many On30 modelers feel are wide, main line curves. 

No, I'm not trying to dampen the proposal.  Just saying, that, like the other recent manufacturer's offering, I suspect an On30 EBT or WP&Y mike would require wider curves than the Forneys do. 

From a personal standpoint, I can say that I would be more interested in either the WP&Y 70 (the early version - 70 and 71 preferred), or an EBT mike than the USA 190's.  However, the USA 190's might find greater appeal to people beyond North America, since these locomotives were built in 36, meter, and 42 inch gauges, and distributed around much of the world. 

Unlike Dustin, I would be more likely to look for some extra K-28's if I wanted power for a White Pass & Yukon train, since my interest in the WP&Y is basically the period during WWII when it was leased by the US Army.  So a pair of the ET&WNC 4-6-0s would be appropriate - but for a very brief period.  Both were badly damaged in the Whitehorse, YT engine house fire, and were shipped south for sale as scrap at the end of the Army's lease. 

Charlie
-30-

[Dusten Barefoot]

<<<<<slaps forehead

I guess there is no exscaping the colorodo narrow gauge unfortuniatly.

The WPY 70 Class is the one that stands out the from the 190 class. The 70 class is more powerfull than the 190 class engine. It may not beat the k-28s power, but it is over rated in my opinon. If you see the trend setter ng once you've seen it a million times.  The MMI or something along those lines are already making the 27s 28s and numerouse other colorodo roads.

I am one of the few who are not a big fan of the Colorodo RRs

Rock On!
Dusten

[NKline]

Bob,

I agree with you 100%! Word, aka rumor, is that if MMI can get all the info they need that they will do an EBT mike or mikes. I would love to see Bachmann offer the EBT #11 in On30. I also agree that 11's size would be great for any on30 layout and it would fit in most all the On30 layout freelanced "schemes."

-Nathan

Dusten,

      I would LOVE to see an EBT mike done by anyone.   I would especially love to see Bachmann do them as my Bachmann locos are the best that I own in On30,  including my two MMI K27s.
       However,  I would be extremely surprised to see Bachmann do such a large engine.    Let me suggest a possible EBT engine to do in On30.   #11 was a 2-6-2.   This engine disappeared from the EBT sometime around WWII and its fate is unknown.   But......the size of the engine would make it a great selection in On30.

[Rail Rat]

Absolutely!  Much more variety is needed in the On30 line. I'm for more rolling stock lettered for WP&Y and EBT.  Also I would like to see a WP&Y diesel locomotive.  Thank goodness for the billboard reefers or there'd be so little variety it would simply be BORING!

[ebtnut]

I'm just going to jump in FWIW on EBT locos.  IMHO, the 2-6-2 is about as big a loco as one might want in On30.  MMI has done the D&RG K's in On30, but because of their outside frames and low-slung look, they can get by.  I really think the EBT's big Mikes just would not look right in On30.  Now, what might be interesting is if they elected to do EBT Nos. 1 and 2, the original Baldwin Moguls.  These were very small locos, and would be right at home with the other Bachmann offerings.  Since they were a "stock" Baldwin model, they would be adaptable to a number of different roads, both domestic and foreign.  This might be a decent alternative to just re-releasing the C&S Mogul.  Just a reminder--EBT No. 7 was built to the same blueprints as the Rio Grande's C-19's, so the MMI model in On30 can be redetailed for that purpose.

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

If a cross-post doesn't get me into trouble, here is a photo of the BTS Sn3 model of #11.  Personally, I think it's a great compromise between the mass of the 2-8-2 and the need to handle tight curves.  Although I do wonder if it would look awfully big next to a Bachmann On30 boxcar, especially ones like mine that have been surgically lowered.



Manager

[NKline]

BTS did the #12 in On3 AND On30 but a kit is $900, I'm sure an MMI version RTR and painted would be around $600-700 like the K's. The BTS #12 was beautiful though.

-Nathan

I'm just going to jump in FWIW on EBT locos.  IMHO, the 2-6-2 is about as big a loco as one might want in On30.  MMI has done the D&RG K's in On30, but because of their outside frames and low-slung look, they can get by.  I really think the EBT's big Mikes just would not look right in On30.  Now, what might be interesting is if they elected to do EBT Nos. 1 and 2, the original Baldwin Moguls.  These were very small locos, and would be right at home with the other Bachmann offerings.  Since they were a "stock" Baldwin model, they would be adaptable to a number of different roads, both domestic and foreign.  This might be a decent alternative to just re-releasing the C&S Mogul.  Just a reminder--EBT No. 7 was built to the same blueprints as the Rio Grande's C-19's, so the MMI model in On30 can be redetailed for that purpose.

[Matt Bumgarner]

I'm partial to the Tarheel lines. I think a small inside frame 2-8-0 like one of the Lawndale Vulcans 4 & 5 would be a great addition to the On30 line.

[darryl1936]

As I see it, if you got the cash, have whatever you want built or do some scratch building. Bugging Bachmann or any other manufacturer doesn't work or takes forever and still maybe nothing..

I think there were 10 times as many that have wanted a Heisler than any other engine.
And what happen?

[justintexan]

 For God's sake...will all of you Maine-two-footers, and Colorado-die-hards realize along with the Bach-Man that the White Pass & Yukon Railway destroys these diminutive railroads in ridership each and every year proving that people are fascinated with, and enjoy the White Pass & Yukon Railroad considerably more than all others combined...run the numbers and you'll see. Dear Bach-Man, please build more WP&Y models in 1:20.3 and On30. People who ride the WP&Y will buy hundreds of models at the White Pass "gift shop"and modelers across the world will buy because RailMaster's of New Zealand have built WP&Y in Sn3 (talk about diminutive scale) and they've sold well. Hell, LGB's "best seller's" have been WP&Y models, just ask Ron Gibson former head of LGB America.

[Dusten Barefoot]

Justin, man calm down.

Tis true that they do bring in a lot of passangers, but that does not nesseserially mean that they are more popular with the modelers.  I am a big ET&WNC inthusiest my self, and would have to agree with Matt on the 2-8-0s. But this topic was mostly dedicated to the EBT & WPY Mikes. I want to see the EBT Mikes produced. Im just intreeged with how their boiler runs through the cab just like #12s. I am also fasinated with the EBTs mining history. Please folks if you want to talk main or colorodo form your OWN topic, do not use this one as a means to get something off subject.
Dusten

[Charlie Mutschler]

A reply to Justin - the WP&Y deserves a lot of credit for its success in ridership.  Part of this is due to a very hard working management and marketing group, but another element in this success is the nature of who a lot of the riders are.  Cruise ship travelers, who take a ride on the WP&Y as part of a cruise package.  A lot of those people buy souvenirs, but how many of them are model railroaders?  Some of them may become model railroaders, and we should hope that they will consider buying some of the models offered.   

However, I disagree with your assertion that the ridership reflects hard core interest in the WP&Y more than other tourist railroads.  The huge number of riders is the result of good marketing, largely to people who want to go on a cruise, and take in whatever scenic sights and tours come with the package.  The WP&Y really worked hard to market their railroad as a sight-seeing component of cruise packages to Alaska.  Very good work, and a brilliant way to capitalize on potential customers being delivered to the door.  The other tourist railroads try to do this in a smaller way - working with bus tour operators, but of course that is a very different market, and a much smaller one than the ships. 

Any of these tourist railroads serve only a very small number of serious railfans or model railroaders.  Most of the passengers are out for the ride - often sold on the basis of the good scenery as much as anything else.  The WP&Y has scenery that is hard to beat - from tidewater to the White Pass summit in 20 miles.  I enjoyed my trip on it, but that was 30 plus years ago, when it was a lot less busy, and was still handling regular freight over the entire line. 

Charlie Mutschler
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