Spectrum Steam Durability

[rowdyjoe]

Hello Bach Man,
    I've sent my new (purchased in late June 2008) Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain to your repair department for warranty repair of defects due to poor (or incomplete) design and inferior materials.  The tiny and fragile  wires from the tender to the locomotive have broken and the "wipers" (electrical pick-ups) on the drive wheels are bent and broken. 
     Perhaps you could suggest to the engrineering and mfg. depts. that they resolve the following issues:

     1.  Use tougher wires and connectors and/or provide strain relief between the locomotive and tender.  When the loco and tender separate (during a derail) the tender is dragged by the wires which puts stress on them and causes them to break at the connectors.  Some sort of "safety chain" or perhaps a "c" clip on the tender draw bar post to prevent it from coming off the draw bar would resolve the issue.

     2.  Use thicker and less brittle "wipers" to carry voltage from the drive wheels to the motor, etc.

I'm 61 yrs.  old and the only person who has operated this locomotive.  It has not been abused ...just operated.  When it is serviceable, it is the smoothest and strongest single locomoitve in my line-up.  Only a Proto 2000 A&B unit (both powered) can match it for pulling power.  It is a beautiful example of the prototype however, the above listed defects need to be addressed before I can recommend it to anyone else. 
I'm very dissappointed in the short life span of these parts and it does not bode well for future sales of your Spectrum line.  I expected to get far longer service from this locomotive before it needed repair.  Please bring these issues to your company management.

Sincerely,
Garry

[SteamGene]

Garry,
I think most of us with modern steam models want the loco-tender connections to be better.  So far nothing has worked as well as it should from any company.  (My opinion.)
Gene

[Yampa Bob]

Why ask Bachmann to add a "retainer" (which would also add to the cost) when you can do it yourself?  Just slip a short piece of 1/16" silicone fuel tubing over the drawbar post and you won't have any disconnects and broken wires.

I always thread the post a bit with a 4-40 or 6-32 steel nut just to make the tubing "grab" the post better. A few strokes with a thin file will accomplish the same thing.  I also bend the drawbar so it will ride in the center of the post, so as to not create any up or down pressure on the tender front, which can cause derails. 

The wires have to be thin and flexible for the same reason.  Heavier wires would be cumbersome and unwielding.  The plugs are also necessarily small and must be handled with care. 

If the wipers are bent or broken, they either came that way, in which case you should return it to the store for a refund, or perhaps you took it apart and didn't assemble it correctly. Heavier wipers would add extra friction and increase rolling resistance. Stiffer wipers would also inhibit the natural kinematic side to side movement of the drivers which makes the Bachmann locos track so well on tight curves.

I have 4 Bachmann 2-8-0 Connies, and have never had the problems you describe. There are so many good things to be said about Bachmann quality, I don't let minor details get in the way of my enjoyment.  By the way, I'm 70, and as a craftsman, I have learned over the years that nothing is ever perfect, but a modeler can always improve it with a little ingenuity. 

[the Bach-man]

Dear Garry,
I'll forward your concerns.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[rogertra]

I support Garry and his comments regarding pick ups on the 4-8-2, in my case both the light and heavy as they both use the same chassis.

The pick ups are too flimsy and are easily bent out of shape.

Heavy wipers will not adversly effect tracking but will improve electrical pick up.

[rowdyjoe]

Yampa Bob,
Thanks for the tip on the shrink tubing.  It's a great idea and I happen to have the ideal size on hand.

I understand your point about the flexibility of the wires but, there are other wires and connectors available that would meet the flexibility and durability requirements.  I modified an "old" model War Baby 4-8-4 (with split chasis) for DCC and mounted both motor and sound decoders in the tender which required a pair of wires from the locomotive to the tender.  I happened to have an old pair of lightweight ear phones and stole the wire I needed from them.  It's very flexible and much sturdier than that supplied by the factory (strain relief applied at both ends).  I would be happy to pay a small increase in price for more durable wire and connectors. 
However, the bottom line is strain relief.  Why should we have to provide something the factory should provide?  It probably all comes down to money but, the little saved in NOT providing it costs them double or triple in warranty repair.  How many folks buy these locomotives and don't have the skills or know-how to apply the modification you recommend?

On the issue of the wipers, a more durable alloy would allow them to keep thickness the same.  In any case, I still say they are poor quality.  Maybe the wipers on my locomotive were from a bad batch.  If you had seen the condiion of them you would likely agree with me.  I certainly appreciate the fact that they provide electrical pick-up on all wheels and the tender but, the locatioin of the wipers (on the outside of the inner drive wheels) was not well thought out.  They are vulnerable to damage when (not if) a derail occurs. 
 
As I said before, when the loco is working it is a beautiful piece of machinery and I have enjoyed owning and running it.  However, when I buy a company's "best" product I expect good quality and longevity.  I got neither.  These two issues seriously detract from an otherwise great product. 

RJ

[Pacific Northern]

Yampa Bob,
Thanks for the tip on the shrink tubing.  It's a great idea and I happen to have the ideal size on hand.

I understand your point about the flexibility of the wires but, there are other wires and connectors available that would meet the flexibility and durability requirements.  I modified an "old" model War Baby 4-8-4 (with split chasis) for DCC and mounted both motor and sound decoders in the tender which required a pair of wires from the locomotive to the tender.  I happened to have an old pair of lightweight ear phones and stole the wire I needed from them.  It's very flexible and much sturdier than that supplied by the factory (strain relief applied at both ends).  I would be happy to pay a small increase in price for more durable wire and connectors. 
However, the bottom line is strain relief.  Why should we have to provide something the factory should provide?  It probably all comes down to money but, the little saved in NOT providing it costs them double or triple in warranty repair.  How many folks buy these locomotives and don't have the skills or know-how to apply the modification you recommend?

On the issue of the wipers, a more durable alloy would allow them to keep thickness the same.  In any case, I still say they are poor quality.  Maybe the wipers on my locomotive were from a bad batch.  If you had seen the condiion of them you would likely agree with me.  I certainly appreciate the fact that they provide electrical pick-up on all wheels and the tender but, the locatioin of the wipers (on the outside of the inner drive wheels) was not well thought out.  They are vulnerable to damage when (not if) a derail occurs. 
 
As I said before, when the loco is working it is a beautiful piece of machinery and I have enjoyed owning and running it.  However, when I buy a company's "best" product I expect good quality and longevity.  I got neither.  These two issues seriously detract from an otherwise great product. 

RJ

I know many owners of Spectrums agree with your complaint concerning the weakness of the current electrical connectors between the engine and tender.

Of the various steamers I have I would judge the BLI as having the best electrical connector sets, with the Proto next and the IHC next with the Spectrums in last place.

Having said that I still consider the Spectrums excellent units overall. I my self would not stop purchasing the engines because of this defect.

Are you saying that because of the electrical connectors you will now cease purchasing any additional Spectrum steamers?

[Atlantic Central]

I will not dispute the view that these aspects of spectrum locos could be slightly better designed or manufactured, however, I must say that niether the wipers or the plugs/wires have been a problem for me.

I have developed a a set of standard modifications for most of the spectrum locos I own, some of which do address issues with the wires and plugs.

Carefull handling has never caused any problem with the wipers, although a few have needed adjustment right out of the box.

I add weight to all my spectrum tenders to help with preventing the wires from being a cause of derailments. I also modifiy many of the drawbars to allow more room for the wires. the Heavy Mountain in particular gets a "dip" right where the plugs are to provide free movement.

I have said before that the manufacturers/designers did not intend these locos to be repeatedly assembled and disassembled, their vision was more like, carefully plug it in, put it on the layout, and leave it there! This solves the problem of the plugging and unplugging - or - simply take your time and be carefull. In all my years in this hobby (since 1967), I have never seen any well detailed model stand up to lots of handling.

These wires are the necessary evil of DCC and/or improved pickup schemes, so I will live with them.

Sheldon

[Yampa Bob]

Garry
You mentioned "shrink" tubing, that is perhaps an option but would require heat which might melt the post. I was referring to the 1/16" I.D. silicone tubing used for model plane and car fuel lines.  With the post slightly roughened, the tubing (about 1/8" long) will stay put.  Being somewhat clear, it is barely noticeable.

On the rare occasion the plugs need to be removed, I find fingernails over the raised edges work well.  I never subject the plugs to any tool.

As a matter of interest, on my Roundhouse vintage locos, the drawbar is "permanently" attached at both ends with screws, and the wires run straight through the tender with no plugs.  Very nice setup, after my usual preliminary inspection, I put them on the track, no hassle at all. After hours or running, not a single derail.

[rowdyjoe]

If I didn't intend to buy more of the Spectrum line of locos I wouldn't bother with recommendations to make them better.  My Heavy Mountian is the only Spectrum loco I own (although I have a "standard" quality also) and I'm impressed with the detail, smoothness, and overall performance of the loco.  However, I'm disappointed in the porr durability of the parts I disussed.

RJ

[Pacific Northern]

If I didn't intend to buy more of the Spectrum line of locos I wouldn't bother with recommendations to make them better.  My Heavy Mountian is the only Spectrum loco I own (although I have a "standard" quality also) and I'm impressed with the detail, smoothness, and overall performance of the loco.  However, I'm disappointed in the porr durability of the parts I disussed.

RJ

I totally agree with you on the aspect of the electrical plug ins for the tender and engine.
Surely it would not add significantly to the cost to upgrade the connections. Hopefully, Bachmann is listening.

I know of a few local members of the model railroad club here who sent their steamers back for repair. Actually make that replacement,  when canvassed no one in the club is aware of repairs being made, only replacements. Those who sent in a note did get back their original steam engines that had been custom painted or weathered.

[rowdyjoe]

PN,
    Gee, that news is sort of disappointing.  Instead of replacement, I was hoping they would repair it and improve the durability of those two issues.  The wipers need to be moved in toward the axles to protect them in case of a derail.  They should not be located where they are now ... it's like they planned for the wipers to get beat up and eventually break.  The engineer who came up with that briliant (not) idea should be looking for a new job ... maybe in a clothes pin factory. 
     Yampa Bob's fix of putting a piece of tubing (snug fitting) on the draw bar pin is a very easy fix for anyone to do but, we shouldn't have to go to that trouble.  The factory should provide a removable "keeper" of some sort. 
     If anyone has a fix for the "wiper" issue, please let me know.  If they replace rather than repair mine, I'll need some help doing the modification.  It's such a nice locomotive and I'd like to keep it working for a long time.

RJ

[Yampa Bob]

Bachmann's service department doesn't have the facilities to make these modifications, or do custom work to your specifications.  The most they can do is replace parts with OEM, or replace the locomotive.

When I got my first Spectrum locomotive, I didn't just take it out of the box and throw it on the track.  First it went to my workbench for a careful analysis of the various design and engineering features.  From the very start, I noticed the loose drawbar and thought this had to be addressed.  First I threaded the post and installed a small nut. That was a fix, but looked unsightly.  I replaced the nut with the silicon tubing and problem solved.

The pilot truck was binding on the spring, so I removed the spring and added a touch of light oil to the pivot bolt.

Then I noticed the front of the tender was a bit "light on the wheels", so I took the tender apart and added some weight to bring it up to NMRA recommendations. 
When the loco was finally placed on the layout, I was confident there would be no problems.

The point I'm making is, as modelers we can't just assume that the loco will arrive in perfect condition, or meet our engineering standards.  Until such time as Bachmann "upgrades" their locos to your specs, the fixes are very easy and cost practically nothing.

I can't address the wiper issue, as I only have Connie 2-8-0 and the wipers have performed perfectly.  However, you mentioned that the wipers get bent after a derail. If your trackwork is correct and the loco set up properly beforehand including adding weight to the tender, you shouldn't have any derails.

[Pacific Northern]

I applaud Yampa Bob for his approach to model railroading.

I think very few modelers take the time to know and understand how these engines work, or how a little bit of tweaking will help alleviate running problems.

If you search the forums you will find that model railroaders are tweaking other brands of model railroad as well. It is not just Spectrum steamers that are requiring alterations in order to maximize their running capabilities.

[Frisco]

I have had the same problem my Spectrum 2-8-0 had the wires pull out when it was on the front of a heavy train then derailed it will be going back to Bachmann. I also have a light 4-8-2 in Frisco that has pickups that short but this one is no longer made so I will have to figure out how to fix it. I agree that this should be changed.