My Shay

[YellowHillsCentral]

Dear Mr. Bachmann,

I have ordered a 3 truck shay with sound from St. Aubin Trains in Woodstock, Illinois around November 1st.  After a month of waiting, we called them and asked them what its status was. They said that they had not gotten it from you guys yet. Do you know where my shay is? I really need it! Any chance you can ship it to them any time soon? Thanks for your help 

Shay Ludlow

[bobgrosh]

Only a month and you are geting impatient?

I  purchased one with sound and DCC in December 06 and it arrived last week. I was told the sound ones are not available at Bachmann and I was sent one without sound or DCC.

Lots of luck.

[YellowHillsCentral]

Really? That's sad. I had the choice of getting the 3 truck shay with phoenix sound for $100 dollars more. Maybe I should have gone that way. because the whistle on the Tsunami sound ain't that impressive anyway. Sorry Bachmann.. Well I at least need it by Christmas. Hopefully by then I should have it. Do yoou think I should change it?

Shay

[bobgrosh]

Don't know if you have any choice. I understand that a few shops may have the shay with sound in stock, so, you could shop around. Maybe someone on this forum happened to see one somewhere and can point you to one.

If you use DCC, you will like the Tsunami. If you use analog, then you will like the Phoenix.

If using DCC, remember, the Phoenix does not control the motor, only the sounds, the Tsunami controls both sound and motor. You need to be sure that 100$ extra includes both a Phoenix (probably the P5) sound card and a DCC motor controller.

The Phoenix (either the 2K2 or P5) is an awesome sound card when combined with a good DCC motor decoder. It sounds great. However there are some very nice features on the Tsunami that separate decoders can not do. Like, modifying the sound of the chuff based on the load or grade. Also, things like the lights being a little dim, then brightening up when the sound of the steam powered electric generator starts.

I really wanted those features which is why I ordered the Shay with the Tsunami sound and DCC motor decoder. In my opinion, the Phoenix may SOUND better to some people, but the Tsunami OPERATES more realistically.

[YellowHillsCentral]

Well, I really like the Phoenix shay sounds, and I really don't like the tsunami sound. Wait, does the Tsunami sound have break squeal> that adds alot. I wish Tsunami had some way you could upgrade it. Sad..

Whatever,
Shay

[Tom Lapointe]

Shay, maybe this video will help you decide - it's a demo of the Tsunami system in the 3-Truck Shay, shot within a few days of when I acquired the locomotive last January!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz9m0LUCJ0g

The locomotive IS running on DCC (NCE PowerHouse Pro 10-Amp system), I was activating many of the sound functions manually   (Bell, whistle, steam blowdown).  It does have an EXCELLENT brake squeal sound as well;  I found if you slowed the Shay slightly going into a curve, it gives a fantastic impression of "flange squeal"!

I also have both Phoenix 2K2 & P5 sound boards, highly recommend them as well; I will give them an edge over the Tsunami in volume.  (The Tsunami's only 1 watt, the Phoenix 2K2 is 2 watts, the P5 as much as 6 watts!  I have only one of the P5 boards at present, installed in a Bachmann "Centennial" Mogul; if I crank up the volume high enough on it, I can hear the engine's exhaust echoing off neighboring houses!   Since I'm on good terms with neighbors - (& want to stay that way!) , I rarely run the volume that high;  the 1-watt level of the Tsunami is more typical of the volume I run at.  Cost was another consideration; even doing the sound & DCC decoder installs myself, the factory Tsunami system cost me at least $100 less than doing it myself!  Figuring JUST the costs of a DCC decoder - Digitrax DG583S, @ $55, & another $160 for a Phoenix P5, & figuring my own labor as "free"!                               Tom

[YellowHillsCentral]

Funny. Well, If you could have another shay, what would you put in it? I'm oredeing mine from Staubintrains.com, which the engine without sound is like $530? I'm jjust guessing but around that. We ordered the shay with Tsunami sound.  for $630 and it's said to arrive in WOODSTOCK by the 10th  so I have like five days to pick. I need your guyses advice on this.

Shay

P.S.  I did use your video on youtube. That's weird. Thanks for putting it on there. I was kinda disapointed with the wistle on yours though. But thanks!

[Matthew (OV)]

Tom,

As I'm sure you know, normal rod engines produce four "beats" of stack exhaust per turn of the wheel.  That's because in one 360 degree revolution, both pistons exhaust both sides having travelled all the way to both ends and back to start.

On a Shay, with three cylinders, there are actually six beats per turn of the crank.... meaning the driveline.... which is then geared down even further to wheel roatations depending on what the customer ordered, and the size locomotive.  The six beats per crank turn is going to be constant for any three cylinder shay, however, as just on the rod engine, each cylinder cycles one complete end to end and back to start travel per turn of the crank.

I wonder if yours could be adjusted upwards a bit, so that instead of a four beat "Chuff-Chuf-Chuff-Chuff" for each turn (yours is actually a bit faster than this,  I think, but it's close, you'd have a "Chuff-a-chuff-a-chuff-a" beat pattern.

Here are a couple of examples... the first one is hard to see the motion, but has pretty clear stack vs speed comparison, while the second you can see the motion (runby toward the end) but the audio isn't as pronounced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv_25uYfLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak-Wbg_JeXs

And please understand ... between your live steamer and your DCC driven locos you have a FANTASTIC railroad, Tom ... I'm not being the least bit critical of anything you've done!

Matthew (OV)

PS.  Now I have to figure out how to apply this to my pair of two truck shays, which currently have exactly half the prototype chuff rate.

[YellowHillsCentral]

Well, St Aubin  Tains is supposed to get the shay (along with 3 bachmann ore cars) today. Now, the have to get from Woodstock Il. to Kansas City Ks. I thing I've chose to stick with the Tsunami sound since it's already in there and everyone says that the sounds have more of a variety that Phoenix.

Shay Ludlow

[Tom Lapointe]

Thanks for your kind comments, Matthew ; I definetely take your minor criticism of the Tsunami sound as "constructive"!   I'm aware of the difference in the exhaust sound of the "2-cylinder" Tsunami & the the 3-cylinder ones on the Phoenix boards; just the price differential was attractive enough that I considered living with that limitation acceptable.  ($100 more than the non-sound-& _DCC version of the 3 trucker; but it would have cost me an absolute minimum of $210 (the combined price of a Phoenix P5 sound board & a Digitrax DG-583S decoder) to "do it myself" (counting my time to do the install as "free"!). - And the other sounds of the Tsuanmi are comparable in quality to the Phoenix (if not in volume!).

In additions to the "2-cylinder" chuff, I will admit to a couple other drawbacks on Tsunami - - probably my biggest gripe being that it is impossible to do some programming without buying a specialized $60 programming booster.   (All my other decoders - Digitrax & NCC - programmed just fine on the (low-level) programming track output of my NCE "PowerHouse Pro" system).   The biggest annoyance was not being able to easily change the decoder address - which is why the 3-trucker became "Watuppa Railway #3" on the roster!  (Vinyl lettering costs @ $2, vs. $60 for the programming booster!).

Also, I acquired the 3-trucker just as the Phoenix P5 was starting to become available;  I already had Phoenix's PC programming interface for my older 2K2 boards.  Upgrading the Phoenix software to do the P5 boards was just a matter of downloading a free software patch from the Phoenix website.  I have an "ancient" (120 MHz. Pentium - P1!, running Windows 95! ) Gateway laptop, (pretty much useless for anything else these days!), has found a useful new life as a sound programming PC, which can be taken outside to do sound "tweaking" on the garden railroad directly!

I also know that the Tsunami was NOT well received by the non-DCC crowd; I get the impression that it was an experiment Bachmann will NOT be repeating (as least in the form it came in); knowing what I do now, if I were to acquire another 3-trucker, I would probably opt for a Phoenix P5 sound card & separate decoder, even IF more expensive!

                                                                                                             Tom

[Matthew (OV)]

Sounds good Tom. 

But you know... it's not so much the card.  You can make a very nice shay out of just about any card, so long as you trigger it right.

The only real difference on the phoenix "3 cylinder" chuff is that it puts the "heavy downbeat" every three instead of every four, as they do with a rod type.... CHUFF chuff chuff as opposed to CHUFF chuff chuff chuff .... and then adds a doubler so you get CHUFF-A-chuff-a-chuff-a-chuff-a ... basically your engine rolls along in 6/8 instead of 4/4 time.

The big deal is, you don't REALLY need the heavy downbeat... and without it there's no way to tell except to count how many beats per turn of the crank.

The programming booster's a new one on me.... I thought the DCC folks could just stick this thing on the program track and set it .... which is why I suggested you turn the rate up a hair.  With that problem, and no manual trigger, I'm not sure what you'd do.

Still looks and sounds great on your railroad.... particularly when used for Kitty Control!

Matthew (OV)

PS.  So you gonna put a whistle on your live steam shay, or what?