To the Bachmann -Development of engines

[mudhen]

Just thinking out load;
Indulge me please.
Since Bachmann has made the K-27 and the C-19, in large scale, you probably hear a lot of
request for engines and rolling stock.
What what I would love to see manufactured, any time in the not to distant future is a T-12
or a C-25 in 1;20.3, I know they have been made by Accucraft, but they are way out of most
of our pay ranges  for this hobby.
I personally would like to see the T-12 manufactured by Bachmann. like the one being restored
and should be running on one of the 2 remaining D&RGW tourist lines in the next 2 years.
Not sure which one.
It would make a great addition to anyones stable of narrow gauge engines, including mine.
Then maybe in the K-36 & or 37s. Or vice-versa, the K-36 & or 37s and then the T-12 or C-25.
I know it's a lot to ask, but they don't and won't be all made made in one year, maybe 2, Ha ha ha,
I know tooling is very expensive and the economy has hit our hobby very hard, but wee,
the little boys of yours in narrow gauge, need new toys. I think many of us in the large scale,
narrow gauge world, would love any of these locomotive and maybe they would be a sell out
like the K-27s and nearly sold out C-19s.
I also know know you get lots of request for rolling stock too,, can any light be shed on any future stock coming our way.
My 2 cents worth, now a penny for your thoughts.
Thanks in advance

[Ted Yarbrough]

Mr. Bachmann,
I agree with Mudhen. We NEED some new D&RGW items. I have suggested repaints and maybe even some slight modifications (use 1:20 headlights, tender, etc) of the 'Annie'. She looks very good with the 1:20 scale Bachmann (and other makes) 1:20 rolling stock. The new #168 being rstored would be a good paint scheme as would bothe the black C-19 schemes (applied to the 'Annie'). Wood cab on the #168, and the RGS blanked out window on the two D&RGW black models. Repaints and NEW models would be EXCELLENT!
Happy Rails To You,
Ted

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Hi! Bach-man, Yardmaster, Inside Track

If nothing new is coming, at least rerun popular items with new roadnames and especially new numbers on the older roadnames.  I know some items have have been rerun with new roadnumbers but more would be good.  A new loco acceptable to 1:20.3 folks, but also usable with the 1:22.5 crowd would be welcome.  Also re run the Jackson & Sharp passenger cars in the D&RGW San Juan green, since the gold and the maroon colors have already been done.

Thanks for all the quality products!

Loco Bill

[RkyGriz]

I second Loco Bill's suggestion! I'd love factory made and decorated JS cars in the dark green color scheme for the D&RGW- especially since I made that custom 4-6-0 locomotive with custom real wood load for the D&RGW last year!
Please! Please! Please!
Andrew

[mudhen]

This post was more about the locomotives becauseI have read here on the sound board,
lots about rolling stock, not saying rolling stock isn't on my list, but I am more interested
in the locomotives of the Narrow gauge D&RGW,
So hoping to hear from the Bachmann or Yardmaster someday soon.

[Ted Yarbrough]

Yes, we want D&RGW locomotives (and rolling stock).

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I have been thinking about the economical reality for Bachmann Industries.  We have not heard from Bachmann in any way on this discussion, but as a practical matter perhaps there will be little or no development until the issue of a 45% increase in import taxes on goods made in China is settled.  This is a political reality nothing more.   It would be great if production could be shifted to the USA, without any price increase, but even if it were possible it would take a lot of time to make happen.

If I were a business man whose business was based 100% on importing goods from China, I would be taking a very cautious approach to new product development especially in a hobby market, which is discretionary, and especially in minority scale products like large Scale.   

As a consumer I am already stunned at the prices we now pay for hobby goods, if the prices were to increase by 45% I would clearly be unable to buy new products no matter how desirable they were even if produced.

Look at the new 2-6-0 MSRP $1250(up from $799 in 2001)  add 45% and the MSRP becomes $1815   A three truck Shay would go from $1400 to about $2030.   Now I know most of us buy at below MSRP, but tack on a 45% increase to even discount retailers prices and we are talking about a significant increase.  If increases actually occur what would that do for already low sales levels in our scale. 

The future of hobby sales coming from China is at best very uncertain.  I am trying to be as hopeful as possible that we can see the great large scale products keep coming from Bachmann!

Just being realistic given the existing conditions.

Loco Bill

[Bucksco]

Unfortunately sales of Large scale products have declined drastically over the past 5 to 10 years. If we cannot expect to be able to pay for the large investment in tooling we really can't logically produce these items. A manufacturer needs to be able to sell multiple production runs of an item just to pay for the production costs - let alone make a profit. When the large scale market starts to grow again we will start planning to produce new items.

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Yardmaster,

Thanks for the candid response and reality check, it is appreciated, even tho we would have liked better news.

Hopefully things will improve in the future!

Even if there are no newly developed Items coming soon,  I still love the great products we do have!

Bill

[mudhen]

Yes,
As Bill said, thanks for your response and I know along with me, others will hope there will be an upward turn in this large scale hobby.

[Greg Elmassian]

No tooling costs, Kader has the Aristo molds, make some locos.

Greg

[Kevin Strong]

While on many fronts I can understand Bachmann's position about waiting until the market is stronger to release new items, there's the other side of that coin which looks at the almost complete lack of anything new coming out over the past 5 years from many manufacturers and believes there to be a strong correlation between that and a lack of market enthusiasm. Are sales down because demand is down, or is demand down because there's nothing new to excite people to buy?

We need a spark, and I think Greg's onto something. The 1:29 market has been flagging with the demise of Aristo, and I could get a sense when Bachmann announced the eggliners' return to production that the sap started to rise in the hobby in sincere hope that they'd once again see some more of their favorite models return to the shelves.

It's not my money on the line, so Bachmann can ignore my comments to their hearts' content, but at the same time, they've got considerable money invested in existing tooling. Sitting idly by while the market declines takes value away from that investment. From my perspective, I think it would make sense to use the tools you already have on hand to try to invigorate the market, even just a little bit.

Again, it's not my money on the line.

Later,

K

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Hi All,

Interestng comments from Kevin & Greg, but even if Bachmann did reintroduce old Aristo locomotives they are hardly "new" or exciting.  Just reruns of older Aristo locomotives that are readily available on Ebay(128 Aristo locos at last look)(even some new in box), and still available at some hobby dealers.  Ebay alone has listing for 1414 locomotives from All manufacturer as of a few minutes ago, some are miscatagorized, but still a large number.  Many of them are available used as well at pretty cheap prices at that(C-16 buy it now for $160)(FA $99 closed recently with no bids).  A lot of Ebay items Aristo and other Manufacturers items close unsold, some overpriced but many pretty cheap. I could make a case for Bachmann to  perhaps rerelease some repair parts, such as couplers, parts for freight cars, motor blocks etc, but even there I have no money in the game, and have no idea of the real cost involved.   

If a totally new locomotive were released, would the needed price point to make a profit be too high for many of us.  Friends that I know have mixed feelings about costs and how much they are willing to spend.  One of the most common themes I hear is "I will buy at a high price a loco I really want, but will cut back on other purchases to compensate"   Others say the cost after purchasing the new high cost locomotive must also be factored in, things like adding sound, radio control or DCC, or battery power, lighting effects etc.  Some say that they will only buy used items at swap meets or shows or on Ebay.   I personally am not a fan of Ebay, but even I am happy to find a "deal" at a show or meet.   Looking at all the product available from all manufacturers both new and used IMHO the market is loaded with large scale product competing for our bucks.

I would love to know how many of us Large scale hobbiests there are out there??  Any body have info how many in the US?  world wide?? 

Again Just saying,

Bill

[charon]

I agree with Bill.  If there was a market for the Aristocraft loco's, then why did they go out of business?
Chuck

[doug c]

"...if the prices were to increase by 45% I would clearly be unable to buy new products no matter how desirable they were even if produced..."

Will this tax be charged to the u.s.-based end user/consumer,   if purchase made of (Bachmann) product from retail 'off-shore'  ?


When we've had to purchase items from us-based sources (for decades) and import them (obviously) as retail purchases they came across the border (model railway/hobby) tariff/duty-free. 


Maybe companies will have to finally seriously talk to say  'off-shore' (Cdn.) retailers about selling more of the product (read --- offer more attractive wholesale pricing) so us-based end-users and manufacturers can avoid this forecast tax. 



doug c



p.s. of course we have money exchange rate (+/- ?), CC conversion rate (5%), fed. tax 5%,  customs handling fee per parcel ($10cdn),  and prov. sales tax when applicable  (AB presently has no pst ),  plus shpg.    Although when I attended the LS shows in the usa  4 times it was a time  when I could load a extra duffle with purchased product and only incur only any exchange rate  and CC conver. rate .... now it is the airlines that fee ya to death so this is no longer a option,  and one of the reasons why I haven't flown nor attended a LSTS since '04 !