New Spectrum Mogul 2-6-0 plug and play pcb

[JBSahnd]

Did Bachmann use the same plug and play pcb on the Spectrum Mogul that is used on the Bachmann Spectrum C19 and K27?

Stated differently - Is the Airwire 900 plug-in decoder for the Spectrum C19/K27 compatible with the Spectrum 2-6-0 Mogul?

[spdavie]

Yes it is compatible and will work, but takes a lot of "trimming" to get the large decoder to fit. I managed to get it to fit in the Emma Neveda. It required cutting out most of the gutter on the top of the tender ( I left a little gutter up front to hold the coal load), cutting the 4 posts that hold the Bachmann board to drop it so that the bachmann board basically sits loose on the speaker (insulated with a sticker), and then trimming all the plug-in prongs on the Airwire drop-in about half way so it can plug in as low as it can go on the Bachmann board. I also managed to get a 11.1 v lithium ion pyramid battery squeezed in the rear of the tender, but not without cutting the Bachmann board a bit. A Phoenix p8 board is at the bottom front of the tender underneath the Bachmann board. I also ran a Y plug so I can disconnect the 11.1 v battery and use an 18.5 located in a Accucraft Jackson and sharp combine car. I really can't recommend this wierd installation, but just might do it again when I pick up the Glenbrook.

Dave

[JBSahnd]

Thank you Davie. I plan to use the Airwire plug-in decoder and Phoenix P8 sound board also. Your response was very helpful. 

[spdavie]

No problem... Just remember it's a extremley tight fit with the Airwire C-19/k-27 drop in. I had to push both boards up from the bottom with my fingers so that the high points of the Airwire such as the switches, charging jack, and pertruding circuts would fit/squeeze through the open space of the tender. It actually kind of held itself in place so that I could slide in the tender tabs and screw the shell back in place. Now the tender shell is flush to the tender board with no gaps and I have access to the switches and charging jack by just pulling up the coal load. It works really well!  I'm sure there might be a better way, but I wanted to preserve most of the tender deck. It's just to pretty to cut up. Also, a G3 would take me a lot longer to install and the other plug-ins are hard to find. I tried to post pictures, but it says the upload folder is full. It didn't work no matter how small I made the files. Anyways have fun!- Dave

[Kevin Strong]

If you're looking to convert the 2-6-0 to Airwire, I'd consider not going with the plug-and-play/Phoenix combination at all. I'd go with the Airwire Convertr receiver feeding a Soundtraxx or QSI decoder instead. If the QSI is plug-and-play, then feed the output of the Convertr into the battery input of the stock board in the tender. That will pass the DCC signal to the QSI decoder and it will work well with no tweaking. If your decoder is not plug-and-play, then use the porcupine-looking adapter board to interface with the decoder.

The Convertr can handle 2.5 amps continuous, which should be sufficient for the 2-6-0. They're also releasing a high-current version of the Convertr very soon. Airwire had a mock-up of the board at the narrow gauge convention back in September.

Alternatively, you can use the Tam Valley Depot DRS1 Hi-Power receiver. It can handle 3 amps continuous.

If you've got the wood-burning version, you can fit an 11.1v battery up under the wood load without any trouble, and a 14.8 volt battery under there with only minor cutting to the wood load. There's ample room in the tender, then, for the DCC board and receiver.

Later,

K

[Jhanecker2]

To spdavie : Regarding posting photographs to this site, you need to have a photo hosting site . Please read  F.A.Q .  General about this procedure . John2.

[spdavie]

Kevin, thank you for your input regarding the alternatives to the Airwire plug-in that I did. I bought the Airwire plug-in prior to receiving my Emma Neveda. If I wasn't able to get it to fit, I was going to then swap it for the G3 in my C-19. The Airwire plug-in worked out really well, but I would like to go the QSI/Convert route for my next mogul. Not only will it simplify things, but also it will be a nice change in sound compared to the 20 something Phoenix sound systems I have installed in all my other locomotives. My question to you is... what sound would you use for the Glenbrook? I couldn't find anything with an old time single chime whistle. Also, thanks for all your contributions to this hobby!

Dave

[Kevin Strong]

You've got a few options for sound systems with single-chime whistles.

With QSI, you have around 6 single-chime whistles to choose from, depending on which version of the software you're using. The older Q2 steam sound file will allow you to select which whistle you want via CV. It comes with two dozen or more whistles pre-loaded; you just choose the CV for the whistle you want and you're off and running. The newer Q3 sound files also give you the option of choosing which whistle you want, but you need to use the Quantum Upgrade software and QSI's interface to do so. Essentially you select the sounds you want (whistle, bell, airpump, etc) from the choices available in the sound file on your PC, then upload the specific sounds to the QSI decoder. It's not as convenient as having all the sounds on the decoder itself, but the sound quality of the Q3 files is definitely superior to the older Q2 files, so if you have the programming interface, that's the route I'd take with QSI. (And I heartily recommend getting the programming interface if you're going to be a regular customer of QSI.)

Soundtraxx's Econami is another option for you. It's available in a 4-amp capacity. It has 3 single-chime whistles to choose from; high, mid, and low pitch. It's "big brother" Tsunami2 board has 9 single-chime whistles, but as of this writing, the high-current version of the board is not yet available. In both of these cases, you can select the whistle via CV.

TCS's WowSound decoders are also on the "will be available for large scale imminently" list. Like Soundtraxx, they've got a long list of whistles pre-programmed onto the board. With the TCS, you can either select them via CVs, or use the "rotate whistle" feature and just scroll to the whistle of your choosing using the function keys. (Default F9)

In terms of sound quality, the Soundtraxx, TCS, and QSI boards (latest Q3 files) are all very good. All three boards have dynamic steam exhaust which changes with respect to acceleration, speed, and load. They also feature multiple chuffs (light, medium, and heavy, and subtle variations in between). You can really customize the sound to each specific locomotive.

The Soundtraxx boards do not have an external chuff trigger. You have to program the chuff rate to key off of the motor's BEMF. At first, I was not happy with that, but it's really good. I put an Econami in my K-27, and I just finished programming a Tsunami2 in my On30 C-16. The chuff is dead-nuts accurate to the quarter throughout the speed range on both locos.

The TCS and QSI boards both offer BEMF-controlled chuff, but also have the option for an external cam trigger. Because the TCS board for large scale isn't yet available, I don't know how it will play with Bachmann's optical chuff trigger. I put a QSI board in my 2-6-0 for a review, and once I programmed the QSI to look for the chuff trigger instead of BEMF, it started chuffing as it should.

Hopefully that gives you some food for thought. Like you, I found about 5 or 6 whistles that Phoenix offers which I find suitable for my locos, so I'm quite pleased to have an ever-broadening array of alternatives.

Later,

K

[spdavie]

WOW! Thank you so much Kevin for your wonderful, very thorough reply! You sold me...I definitely will be going with the QSI q3 and interface. Hopefully I can find someone who has it in stock. I also will be looking forward to your review of the 2-6-0 with QSI. I'm guessing it will be in the Garden Railways magazine like so many of your other great articles.

Thanks again,
Dave

[Kevin Strong]

Looking at CVP's web site, their new Convertr, called the "Convertr-60" is listed as being available from their dealers. You can also use the DRS1 Hi-Power receiver from Tam Valley Depot. Both can be run from an Airwire transmitter.

Convertr-60 - http://www.cvpusa.com/airwire_convrtr_series.php#convrtrinfo

DRS1 Hi-Power - http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/drs1deadrailcomponents.html

The big difference between the two (besides $40--the Tam Valley Depot receiver is cheaper) is that the Airwire receiver will work on all 17 Airwire frequencies. The Tam valley Depot receiver is limited to Airwire's channel 16.

Which to use? If you frequently have more than one operator on the railroad, then you may find the ability to use different frequencies to be advantageous, as each operator can run independently. Know that to select the frequency on the Airwire Convertr, you must program a CV on the receiver to do so (CV 58). When you set CV 58 on the Airwire, you need a way to isolate it from the QSI (or whatever decoder you have attached) lest you program CV58 on that board as well. The Convertr must also be set to the same DCC address as the decoder plugged into it. (All part of the programming.)

The Tam Valley Depot receiver is limited to one frequency (Airwire channel 16), but does not have a specific DCC address. You can plug it into any DCC decoder, and so long as your transmitter is set to the decoder's address, it will control it. The trouble with having all your receivers on the same frequency is that you're limited to one operator, or if you have multiple operators, you need to make sure the transmitters don't interfere with each other. Airwire's T-5000 throttle has a "transmitter power" setting which will allow you to dial the transmitter power back so your range is around 10' at most, so that will mitigate interference problems if you've got more than one transmitter on the same frequency.

Later,

K

[StanAmes]

The new Convertr-25 or 60 should open this up to most any decoder.  This means that the Zimo plug in decoder is now a simple option for RC control.  Also means that any decoder and Phoenix sound is also an option.

For an easy conversion plug in a DCC decoder in the socket and connect the Convertr output to the Battery input in the main circuit board in the tender.

Stan

[Kevin Strong]

One advantage to putting the receiver between the battery and the main PC board as Stan describes is that the DCC decoder itself is connected to the power input pins on the socket. That means you can use the track/battery switch to toggle between using the Convertr or Tam Valley receiver (battery power) or "traditional" track-powered DCC. You could even run the loco on analog DC track power if the decoder was programmed to run on analog DC as well as DCC.

That sounds ideal, but there's one caveat, at least if you're using the Convertr. If the Convertr is receiving power from the battery but is not receiving a signal from the transmitter, it will pass full linear DC through to the decoder instead of a DCC bi-polar wave. If the decoder is set to run on analog DC, it will see this linear DC signal and take off at full voltage. If your transmitter is on, but not broadcasting on that frequency, then it will also take off. (Ask me how I learned that one...) I seem to recall it also taking off if you set your transmitter to another DCC address, but my memory is shaky on that one.

Also, if you put the Convertr or Tam Valley receiver before the PC board, you'll want to install a power switch between the battery and the receiver, lest you constantly power the receiver so long as the battery is plugged in.

The alternative is to use what I'll call the "porcupine board" plug-in interface to hook up the receiver and decoder. (You'll have to do this anyway if your decoder isn't a "plug-and-play" format). If you do this, then the track/battery switch becomes a de facto power switch. The catch is that if you use this as a power switch and you have the switch set to "track," you need to make sure you don't set your loco on a live track, as you'll be feeding this voltage to the receiver. The Convertr is NOT polarity protected, and if it gets reverse polarity, you will release the magic smoke. The Tam Valley receiver likewise has no polarity protection, but if I recall, reversed polarity won't hurt it, it just won't power up.

" Also means that any decoder and Phoenix sound is also an option."

I would suggest that such a combination would be unnecessarily expensive, and to be frank, antiquated when compared to today's modern motor/sound decoders. Even if you had a Phoenix board already on hand, I'd sooner use a newer decoder. The integration of sound response to what the motor is doing is increasingly difficult to match with Phoenix.

Later,

K