Ticking Scratching Sound

[punkin]

Hello all,

After recently replacing the front trucks on my 4-6-0 Anniversary all was going very very well. Train ran so smooth and quiet but suddenly very recently I started hearing a ticking/scratching sound. The frequency/rate increases as the train goes faster. It still runs strong and smooth but the sound causes me a little concern. Now that I'm comfortable with taking the bottom off the train I thought to do a visual inspection. I found one thing that makes me a little concerned.

The forward set of large wheels sits up into the chassis. The wheel/axle assembly has what looks like brass hubs or bearings with a patterned or sintered edge that gets captured up into "U" shaped cut-outs in the chassis. It appears as this should be a bit of an interference fit. I say this because all but one of the axles fit snugly into the chassis. I have one that appears as though the brass part has been turning inside of the "U" shaped saddle section of the chassis and has started to wear at the plastic. It's also very loose in the chassis as compared to the other axle bearing assemblies.

I apologize for the poor description but I don't know what these parts are called. I've attached the parts breakdown and I've attempted to post a photo. Any advice you have would be appreciated. Thank you!



http://postimg.org/image/4qrqadl8l/


http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/LS_4-6-0_Metal_Gears.frame_&_wheels.pdf

[veetwelve]

Hi Punkin,

From your excellent photo, it appears that the brass bushing is intentionally knurled to prevent the OD of the bushing from spinning in the chassis, thereby defaulting to the axle spinning in the bearing instead.  Obviously there is too much friction between the metal axle and the brass bushing, or the brass bushing would not be spinning in the chassis (which is chewing up the plastic chassis slot).  The fix would appear to be to lubricate the axle/bearing interface, and then try to secure the bearing in the chassis with a drop of CA glue.  I don't have an Annie in my fleet of Big Haulers, nor have I encountered the problem you seem to be having, but based on your photo, that's what I would do if I were seeing what you're seeing.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
Jay

[NarrowMinded]

I had a similar issue on a used loco, I disassembled the loco rugged up the plastic and then used two part export to build up the warn area, after it set for a week I told and sanded it to shape, I cleaned the bushings and lived them and reassembled it. It's been fine since the repairs.

Nm-Jeff

[RkyGriz]

Punkin: I assume that it is basically a new unit since you bought it from trainworld.com,right? If so, and the problem is bad enough, I would contact Bachmann customer service and send it to them for replacement(they don't repair them. The returned units are used for parts). You could also contact the company that you bought it from and see if they'll allow you to return it for exchange. They may even pay postage both ways since it was bought new. No matter what, you shouldn't mess with trying to fix it yourself until you talk to Bachmann or trainworld.com and find out what they're willing to do to fix it for you , especially when you consider that you've only had it for less than a month and a half and it's already had 2 problems. Trying to repair it yourself could possibly invalidate the warranty.
Just my 2 cents.
Later!

[Chuck N]

You might call Trainworld, but my guess is that they will tell you to go directly to Bachmann.  I wouldn't try to fix it yourself.  The knurled fitting should be locked in and not spin.  I think there is more to the problem, such as something locking the axle in the bearing, preventing it from turning, forcing the entire assembly to turn.

Chuck

[punkin]

Thanks everyone,

This is a brand new train. During my first problem with the front truck pickups I did call Trainworld but all I got was there must be something with how I was operating it and that I should let the train run longer so it can "break in". They weren't highly motivated to help me out.

I did end up working direct with Bachmann who was very very helpful. Before calling them again on this matter I wanted to be sure that I was really experiencing a problem as I'm still new to this and not sure what is good/bad. I will call them again this morning.

Thanks to you all for taking the time to look at this for me. I do appreciate it.


Have a great day everyone!

[NarrowMinded]

I'm missing something... I didn't see where it's a new loco in your previous post.

Being new I would get it replaced under warranty, since these locos usually run very well for a long time

[punkin]

I may not have mentioned that in this post. I did contact Bachmann and they're having me send it in. My hope is that they turn around quickly. I ordered this about a month ago now but I've had some level of problems with it since the very beginning. Initially I had some issues where it would run roughly in one direction so they sent me a new front truck which made things much much better. At that point I really got to start running it and then after only a few hours of operation (not all at once but rather over the course of a few days), the train started making a rythmical scratching sound. My curiousity got the better of me so I opened the bottom and found what you see in the photo.

I have to once again thank everyone for the support and taking the time to read my newbie questions.


Have a great day everyone! 

[RkyGriz]

Hey Punkin. You're probably looking at around 4-6 weeks turn around time. Make sure to inspect it carefully for damage when it comes back. I had one a couple of years ago that had to be sent back 3 times because it arrived all three times with broken parts on it due to shipping issues. The 4th one arrived in perfect condition and I still have it today. It was a real hassle. I had to call Bachmann customer service over it each time and they were kind enough to pay for return shipping. I sent the original locomotive back to them in late July,2012 and the one that I wound up keeping arrived on December 22, 2012. It's the black 4-6-0 #12 that appears in most of my youtube videos. Don't get me wrong-it's a great locomotive. Bachmann bent over backwards to take care of me on this and I would give them a 5 star rating for their customer service. It's just that shipping sometimes causes unexpected damage (as we all know) and there are a lot of fragile, breakable parts on these locos and the fault lies with their carrier (UPS) in the way they sometimes handle packages. I just wanted to let you know what happened with mine so that you'll be aware of these issues and be sure to carefully inspect your loco for damage when it comes back to you.
Happy railroading my friend!
Andrew

[punkin]

4-6 week turn around 

I surely hope my experience is a little different. I am sympathetic to the shipping aspect. I would hope that they ship it back in one of their original boxes. Those boxes seem to be very well made.

I'll be sure to keep you all posted. I'm looking forward to a time when this thing is completely operational for more than a few days. Thanks for setting my expecations to something more realistic too.


Have a great evening!

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Punkin,

When you call them about your repair ask about how heavy the workload is and the estimated turnaround time?

In the past I have discussed turnaround time with in-the-know folks at Bachmann and this is what I learned. Turnaround time varies greatly depending on the time of the year and vacation schedules of the employee's.  December, January and February are usually the heaviest due to folks pulling out their trains set for christmas and finding something wrong and sending them in. Early spring and mid fall are the slowest.  The second busiest time is now, because late spring and earlier are prime time for running trains.   Folks often send in loco's to fix that aren't actually broken or having a problem, because the problem was with another component or a short on their track, even carpet fibers wrapped around the axles.  Needless to say these have to be received, evaluated and sent back taking up technician time.   Interestingly I also learned they have had problems with some folks trying to get over on the system, and even in those cases they try to be accommodating up to a point. Beyond saying that I cannot say more about the specifics of some of the scams, because I promised not to. Needless to say this also takes up tech and management time, and causes delays us, the non scamers.

As for your locomotive, it is unfortunate you are having a bad experience, especially since you bought it new.  The version five chassis Anniversary 4-6-0, and the Version 5 Big Hauler have been so trouble free problems with them have been rarely reported here on the forum.   When Bachmann produces a new version chassis for the 4-6-0 they produce a large quantity of extra chassis to stock the repair operations.   The quality of the version 5 chassis has been so outstanding Bachmann has had a very large quantity of chassis that are not needed, because warranty repair on the 4-6-0's  have been at record lows compared to the version 1 thru 4 chassis made before 2000.  This is why Bachmann has been selling the excess Version 5 chassis in the online store on and off over the past year.  I did notice that the sale is back on for many of the 4-6-0 variations.

None of this good news helps when it is you having the problem, but I can say the chances are great that when you get your loco back it will give you great service if you take good care of it and follow the lubrication procedures.

Your problem may be that someone at the factory failed to lube that one bearing causing it to bind and fail, so to be safe be sure to lube the chassis as soon as you get it back.   Many of the warranty repairs are often due to lack of lube, or not using plastic compatible lube.   Definitely use plastic compatible lube.  I knew one guy who laughed about the need for plastic compatible lube, and used WD-40 and sprayed the hell out of his chassis every time he ran the locomotives.  Needless to say all three all three of his locomotives failed in less than a year and had damage to the plastic bodies and plastic drive rods as well.

Don't be discouraged over your problem and keep having fun with your trains!!!   Bachmann has the best warranty in the business, I can name 4 other brands that don't even offer a warranty, or have gone out of business. 

As your finances allow consider getting a second locomotive not just for fun, but to have as a spare when a problem does come up.

Good Luck!

Bill

[RkyGriz]

Punkin: Building on Loco Bills suggestions for maintaining your loco: I've had positive results with Bachmann plastic compatible lubricants. I use their Light Gear Oil and Heavy Gear Oil for the drive rods,wheel, and bearings. I use a product called Labelle 106 Plastic Compatible Grease with PTFE for the gears on the locomotive and wheel axles on my cars. Bachmann also offers their similar E-z Lube grease which is what Bachmann recommends for their products. If you need instructions on how to lube your locomotive, the video has been posted on youtube by Bachmann:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxTWNdIusF4
I also recommend removing and cleaning the drive rods once in a while to remove any built up residue-especially if you are running your train over carpet or have pets! And that goes for all of your cars as well!
Like Loco Bill has already said, lubrication is the most important thing to maintain on your locomotive to ensure many years of trouble free operation!
Andrew

[NarrowMinded]

It's worth the wait to get it fixed correctly, I love Bachmanns products with proper maintenance they run very well, I've run big haulers literally thousands of miles over the course of a few holiday seasons.

Nm-Jeff

Ps make sure to lube those bearings so you don't have a recurrence of this issue.

[Joe Zullo]

I have also had this happen to my Generation 5 4-6-0. I had to build up the area of the chassis where the round brass bushing rides with split silicone tubing (chainsaw gas line). This condition is due to poor engineering! The outside profile of these bushings should have been square so they could not turn and grind down the plastic. Daaah, plastic is softer than brass. 

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I have three Annies. bought the first in 2000 when they first came out, the other two within a year.  They still run beautifully, I actually can't believe that it was almost 15 years ago and the first one is still going strong.  It started out as a track power then I converted it to battery & RC.   Still a favorite .   I wish I had a car that would go that long without a repair !!! 
Mine all have the more complex Walsearchts vale gear.  Yes, I baby them , I lube them more frequently than most guys. I too use the Labelle 106 grease for the gears & light oil for the rest of mechanism. On the axles where they enter the bushing I add a puff of teflon powder, also a Labelle product, after I use the light oil.  If you are running in very hot outside temperatures, I strongly recommend more frequent lubing.  I always make sure the rods are not binding when I run them.  I would have used the Bachmann lubes, but the hobby shop did not carry them, and I had been using Labelle on my HO stuff way back when...   

My son has many problems with his supposedly "higher quality" other brand steam locomotives and they sit on the shelf looking pretty  :'(because there is no warranty repair, no service department, no parts, no replacement chassis, no nothing and the company went out of business .   I still stand by Bachmann, especially since 2000 when the Annie came out, before that not so much, as the earlier chassis versions 1 to 4 where not great runners.   As for the warranty and service department, where else can you send in a 15 year old 4-6-0 and for $55 bucks get back your locomotive with a brand new chassis .  Where else can you drop your expensive locomotive on the floor and still get it replaced at the warranty fee, or free within the first year!!!  Just saying......

Bill