EZ Track layout and expansion, opinions wanted

[jbrock27]

Good job on the pics jdd.  They look like old Bachmann and AHM cars with "pizza cutter" ABS plastic wheel flanges.  The trucks on these old "train set" cars don't always hold their shape so well and in a couple of your pics, it looks like they are bent or warped.  Also, sometimes the wheels on these models will have a chip or "dent" in the plastic flange of the wheel which leads to running trouble.  All these things could be contributing to their running problems as well as they are likely very light and underweight by NMRA standards, especially the gondola cars.  This would explain problems running thru the turnouts where other cars run fine.  I would imagine they are not very well detailed or colored, correct? 
If that is the case, my suggestion is to set them aside and not run them and to not invest any $ in trying to update them, the time and $ just not being worth it.  You could also hold onto them until July 4th rolls around
While on the subject, I also suggest you get an NMRA standards gauge if you don't already have one.  It is a great tool and can be used to diagnose turnout problems and check the gauge of wheels.  The wheels on these may be out of gauge as well and if you have the gauge, you would be able to check them.  I would not buy the gauge as much to help with these cars as much as it is just a good idea to have one for future work.

[janedoedad]

All correct.  The weight difference is very obvious with these two cars.

The eBay lot that had the joiners, also had NMRA Mk IV gauge and Kadee coupler gauge in it. 

What about the Fourth of July?      Are you suggesting I could recreate the robbery scene from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" 

Thanks for the help!

JDD

[jbrock27]

You are quite welcome.

Excellent, you have 2 of my favorite and most useful train tools.

Of course, I would never suggest anything that is illegal in your state, but....yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting   My son and I did that with a ERTL car we got in lot with an SD45 loco and other cars (after we took off the trucks and screws and anything else that could be useful down the road).

[Morgun 30]

Joe,

While I've enjoyed playing with this lay-out, it is JDD's and he has a vision of what he wants it to be. I think it started with a lay-out Jward did for him, then he made some changes to come up with his design, then we've made some suggestions.

I'll keep playing with some ideas, but I think I'll start a new post to display them as not to highjack his post.

[Doneldon]

JDD-

The cars which you showed us are almost certainly the cause of their own derailments. To start they have what's called Talgo trucks. That means the coupler is mounted on a beam which is part of the truck. These are notoriously unreliable, especially when backing up. The horn-hook (also called NMRA or X2f) couplers certainly aren't helping. The cars are almost underweight which contributes to trackability problems. The plastic wheels probably don't contribute to your derailment problems very much but they will force you to do much more track cleaning that metal wheels would do. I'm saying all of these things because they are the expected gremlins in inexpensive set rolling stock, and that's what these cars reveal themselves to be. They might have been sold separately, but they are train set quality.

It is possible to rehabilitate these cars but they probably aren't worth it. At a minimum, you would need to bring the cars up to weight, replace the plastic wheel sets with metal ones, remove the coupler beams, install good knuckle couplers on the car bodies and tune the couplers and trucks. Replacing the trucks with new ones equipped with metal wheel sets would be strongly advised because that would take care of both the plastic wheel problem and the work of cutting off the coupler beams.

Unfortunately, you are looking at 20-30 minutes of work and an expenditure of $5 - $10 per car. That cost breaks down as about $3 for four metal wheel sets (or $5 - $7 for new trucks), about $2 - $2.50 for quality knuckle couplers, and zero to a couple of bucks for weights if you don't have something suitable around the house or in the coffee can full of old screws and nails that you've been hoarding since you first moved to your own place. Actually, you probably do have something suitable for the stock car: pennies. But the gon is another story. Unless you can gin up a load for the gon you'll have to buy an underfloor weight because a stack of pennies would look a little out of place laying in the bottom of the car. And you'd still have basic cars with mediocre details.

I cannot urge you to do this because the return in value, both monetary and as a model, is nearly nothing. I would not do it myself and that's coming from someone who knows how to do this quickly and has the special tools needed to make the job go as smoothly as possible. However, if these cars have some sentimental value or your model railroading budget just won't support expenditures for quality rolling stock right now, you might legitimately decide to go ahead with the upgrading. That's a decision only you can make.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck and please keep us informed about your progress and success.
                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[jbrock27]

One small point Doc regarding the plastic trucks on these problem cars that jdd has.  These ABS plastic trucks have a tendency for the plastic to wear downward from where the hole is that the axle point fits into.  You can even see it in some of the pictures.  At the very least, this causes a lot of wobble when running and also causes the wheels to not run true in the truck and between that and the possibility the wheels sets are bent or have chips out of the flanges, creates the strong possibility that the wheels do contribute to derailments.   And even if new, sometimes the wheel sets are not in gauge.  Based on your point on the talgo trucks, one might expect talgo trucks can never run forward well (I agree they are very poor for backing up)  but this is not the case.  jdd, do you have other cars with the same style trucks that run no problem?

Let's call these what they are: cheap trucks and cheap wheel sets that are prone to problems other trucks and wheelsets don't have.

While I am at it I will point out there is a big difference between running these ABS plastic wheelsets that create track "grime" and Delrin wheelsets which are head and shoulders better than ABS plastic.  I am not convinced Delrin wheelsets make for that much more track cleaning work than metal ones.  I do certainly like and use metal ones as well.

[jward]

don I have to disagree with you about the wheelsets not causing derailment problems. those shown do not conform to nmra rp25 specs, which makes them more susceptible to derailments. my experience with these cheap one piece plastic wheelsets is that they are often out of guage as well. that's another cause of derailments. unfortunately, with one piece wheelsets there is no way to adjust them back into guage.

[janedoedad]

Thanks to everyone for your responses about the cars.  Since the cars in question are not Bachmann, they came from one of the 'look under the table' clearance boxes at a train show or swap meet.   Sometimes you can find all sorts of interesting things in those boxes!   

Picked up a few brand new Bachmann sets recently for a good (Really Good!)  price.  The older Talgo cars with hook/horn couplers will be phased out.

Decided on the final plans for my lay out.  I will post the plan and some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks Again!!  You have saved me time, money and frustration with your advice and suggestions.


Scott

[jbrock27]

Excellent idea jdd! Did you buy the Silver Series models?

Jeff, is that the same as saying you agree with me?!?

[janedoedad]

Excellent idea jdd! Did you buy the Silver Series models?

No, these are two starter sets (Santa Fe Flyer and Pacific Flyer) on clearance for $20 each.  Figure I will keep the locos and cars, sell the track and power pack on eBay.   The LHS has a (very) few Silver Series models in stock and the price ($9 - $15) seems reasonable.  The LTS will order, not sure of the pricing.

Haven't opened up the locomotives to see if they are "DCC Ready" or easily converted.  Nothing mentioned on the box about that, although one is the same type engine found in the "Commander" sets. 



@Doneldon,  I may try to convert a couple of these cars just for the learning experience, if nothing else.      May just put a couple of 'train sets' together and donate to the local underprivileged kids.

[jbrock27]

jdd, that's a reasonable price for Silver Series stock.
My suggestion on the power pack you may look to sell, is to keep it as an auxiliary power source to power switch machines or lights or other power driven things, unless you have others already in place to do that.

[Doneldon]

JDD-

Putting some sets together for some kids who is an outstanding thing to do. It's probably the best use of
equipment we won't be using on our own pikes. And I thank you for your generosity.
                                                                                                                                -- D

[jward]

both sets are not dcc ready, though they can be converted. the 0-6-0 steamer is the hardest to do, as you need to use a z scale decoder. there is no room in the locomotive for anything bigger.

[janedoedad]

Grrr!!!! Just had a post disappear.  Tried to resubmit and got an eror message saying the post had already been submitted. 

Anyhow, here are some pictures of the Oscar Line RR - Final Draft

Thanks to everyone for your ideas, suggestions, advice and opinions.  I appreciate all your help.

The Construction Crew has arrived.  They seem a bit overwhelmed.   
 


Western Half



Eastern Half



Couple of bad pictures of the entire layout




Some (not so) detail pictures







Want to replace two manual turnouts with remotes before securing and ballasting the track. 

Thanks Again!

[janedoedad]

both sets are not dcc ready, though they can be converted. the 0-6-0 steamer is the hardest to do, as you need to use a z scale decoder. there is no room in the locomotive for anything bigger.

I would go blind trying to work with something that small.     I think the 0-6-0 will be reserved for excursion rides for tourists. 

I will have to see about converting the other engine, the LTS does conversions.  No idea what the price is.