4x8 track plans

[jward]

no it would not. your trains will sideswipe.

[show33]

Makes sense, thanks Jward

[Joe Satnik]

Keywords: John Armstrong, concentric, triple, circle, 2.25 spacing, cork, flex

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik


Edit:  added Keywords, signature.

[rookie123]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses - it really has helped me. Getting 3 ovals with three different trains working for my grandsons (3.5 and 4.5 years old) has been a blast - they just love it and love to put dinos and people in the cars to take them on a ride. it's the Dinosaur Train they say.

Someone said it will get boring at some point and I know it will. As they get older then we'll look at some special layouts including elevation changes, mountains and tunnels. I'll have them involved in these changes which is really going to be fun.

Again thanks,
Rookie

[rookie123]

Oh by the way, the 15 in radius oval is working very well with the Bachmann Chattanooga Choo Choo running on it. Had to put some lead tape on the tender to weight it down but now it goes full speed w/o issue.

Rookie

[AGSB]

While prowling the internet today I came across these two PDF documents on a design challenge for a 32 sq. ft. layout. Not confined to a 4x8 configuration but must be no larger than 32 sq. ft.

40+ layout designs and write ups.

Part A

Part B

[rookie123]

I need some more advise please. I've decided how the current HO 4 x 8 will be expanded almost double but have some questions.

1. I have no vibration on the pool table but can I expect it when I put the layout on foam on top of plywood?
2. What foam should I use for building landscaping?
3. What is the recommended type of foam and what thickness should i use to minimize any vibration?
4. What is the recommendation on rate of incline as I plan to have tracks at different elevations?

Thanks in advance,
Rookie

[Jerrys HO]

r123,

1. What type of vibes are you expecting? There should be no vibration just because your layout is on foam. A lot of modelers do it that way as it makes it easy to create rivers and uneven terrain.
2.This is going to depend on what you prefer to use. I would suggest picking up a couple of scenery how to books to help you out.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=kalmbach+scenery&tag=googhydr-20&index=stripbooks&hvadid=32992605865&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3285281781010833085&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9lfkjkv6pk_b
I use plaster cloth and foam board to build a lot of scenery.
3. I would suggest extruded foam board sold at most big home improvement stores. I have only seen it in pink and blue. You can see it in this link..
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-150-2-in-x-48-in-x-8-ft-Scored-Squared-Edge-Foam-45W/100320352#
The thickness will depend on what you are trying to achieve in your scenery. It also depends on where you live as here in the south I have only found it in 3/4 and 1/4 so I doubled to achieve what I was doing. Up north they are lucky enough to find foam board a lot thicker like 2 to 6 inch thicknesses. I wish I could have access to that but it's a little to late.
4. This will be your biggest challenge as 2 to 3% grades are the most I would recommend with 3 pushing it a little steep. I have a 3% grade on my layout but I do have the room to stretch out the approach and declining track. If you have a turn on the incline I would recommend sticking with the largest radius possible. I learned the hard way and now I am replacing with larger radius turns.

Hope this helps and if I can think of more I will add to this.

Jerry  

[Jerrys HO]

Greetings all! New to the forum but have been involved with model RR'ing to some degree or another most of my life. I started out in the usual way with an HO scale loop set and grew from there. Eventually Pop and I had built the "Central Midland" from the classic Atlas layout book Six HO Railroads You Can Build. Anyhow time marches on and on a whim I got out my son's old Bachmann EZ track set that I had bought him for Xmas when he was 4 or 5 and set it up under our tree an my 11 year old daughter took an avid interest as well . That was all it took and I started looking for more permanent space and ideas in our house. 4x8 is the perfect size for the space I have available and this thread has been very informative on to the many possibilities I can go with there.

Anyhow enough of my life story! Just wanted to say I've found the thread very useful and it has been great to share with my daughter! Here is what I ended up with under our tree. Thanks all and Happy New Year!

Lee[/URL]][/img]

Lee,
It's great to hear this thread has helped you out. I have been PM'd by others that liked some of the smaller designs and requested a material list. I know of at least one that has completed one and it runs flawlessly.
I also want to thank all the other board members for their support as I probably could not get as technical as you have.

AGSB,
Thanks for the links I like almost every design.

Jerry

[jward]

with grades I have 4% grades on my layout. I have no problems with them and 18r turns.but keep in mind that the pulling power of your locomotives will be 1/6 what they pull on the level. it follows that with steeper graes you will be running shorter trains, something that you should be running anyway if you have 18r curves.

my average locomotive will pull 5 or 6 cars on a 4% grade, with a couple pulling up to 12. that's plenty long enough for the small layout I have.

converted into easily calculated increments, 4% is equal to about 3/8" rise per full track section, 3% is 1/4" rise per section.

[Doneldon]

rook-

I'll jump on the bandwagon here and give you my opinions on your questions. And they are exactly that: opinions. They are no better and no worse than anyone else's because there are big doses of experience and preference that go into them.

1. Rigidity won't be a problem, especially if you use a plywood base. But you don't need to do that if you use two-inch foam which is well supported by cross members and cleats along the edges. In fact, the plywood will complicate things because you'll actually have to drill holes for wiring instead of just poking through the foam with a screwdriver or an icepick.

2. & 3. Get the blue or pink extruded foam insulation. Do NOT get white foam. It's no where near as strong and it's a huge mess to work with. You can use scraps of the foam (or the white stuff since you aren't looking for strength) to build general terrain contours. Hold it all together with plastic-safe construction adhesive or caulk. Cover the foam contours with plaster cloth similar to the stuff doctors use for casting broken bones. It's fairly inexpensive if you shop for it on line. MicroMark has some which is much less expensive than Woodland Scenics. I put my plaster cloth in place dry, holding it together with a few strategic drips of water. Then I spritz it until it is quite wet and smooth out the cloth texture with my fingers or a wide brush. I tint the water with dark paint so the plaster isn't bone white if it cracks or gets chipped. I sometimes leave vertical surfaces of the foam bare so I can slather on some Sculptamold and carve cliffs or rock strata.

You can also use bunched up newspaper for your general contours but take them out from under once the plaster sets because they'll get mildewed and stinky after a while. Another possibility is one-inch wide corrugated cardboard strips stapled or hot glued together for the framework under the plaster cloth. Or try each method a little and see what seems the best or most fun for you.

4. Grades are the bane of railroads, big and small. The real ones will lay miles of unnecessary track to flatten or avoid a grade because they are such a challenge to operations. Our little trains actually handle grades better than the twelve-inches-to-the-foot railroads do but they are still a problem, at least partly because our usually confined spaces don't permit us to go all over creation to dodge a grade or flatten one out. I think a two-percent grade is a good maximum and I would never go over three except on a narrow gauge or industrial line (like a logging or mining set up) using geared locomotives. And remember that curves "enhance" the effects of grades so back off on the steepness if the trackage is curvy.

My last thought isn't an opinion: Have fun.
                                                                    -- D

[jbrock27]

R123, you have thus far gotten terrific suggestions.

If I understand you from what you said, it sounds like you would like to build something to put on top of your pool table.  Do you have something removable in mind?

Anyway, I have come across this video series on line and never get tired of watching them.  Here is the link and you can view each of the 9 videos in the series; they go over the type of foam that has been suggested and how to cut and shape it.  They also go over how to build a 4 x 8 from start to finish.  Just a sampling of what's out there, but I like these bc I find them  easy to understand.   I hope this helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyenCuseToA

Jerry, I will gladly trade you some 2" foam for some temperatures above -10 F

[rookie123]

Guys you don't know how much I appreciate your responses and suggestions/knowledge. The pool table is a little bigger than 4 x 8 on top of the rails but smaller inside the rails where I have 3 loops and 3 different trains running now. I would raise it to the top of the rails and add another 46" x 96" section with a 24" x 54" cutout in the middle to provided access. I'd like to be able to take it down in two pieces but I doubt I would ever do that as the grandsons are totally into it.

In the next few weeks I'd plan to install the 2 sections (plywood maybe) followed by layout of the track configuration which I have not finalized on. I getting lots of input from this site as well as others and have a pretty good idea what I want. I'm thinking about running 3 trains on 3 loops all a different elevations with some cross overs with a town somewhere in the middle.

Again thanks so much,
Rookie

[jbrock27]

Ahh, I misunderstood you, sorry.  I see you are using the pool table as the base of your layout.

[Doneldon]

rook-

Two concerns: I think you'll find the 24-inch width of your access hole too narrow for comfortable operations and impossible if you expect to have a grandson in there with you. Plus, you don't need the central access for a 4x8 unless a long side is against a wall. Second, you could have serious problems with grades if you try to connect three loops on different levels unless those levels are only separated by a couple of inches. Even then it will be difficult because your center loop will have to go up to reach the top tier and down to reach the lowest level.

I'm not sure of your plans but it sounds like your goal might be two 4x8 plywood sheets joined along their long edges yielding an 8x8 layout. That will require a tremendous amount of space because you'll need a minimum of 30 inches all around. That means a room at least 14x14 and you won't be able to use it for anything else. I strenuously urge you to think about a narrow shelf layout around the walls if you have that much space.  You'll find such an arrangement much better. You can have longer runs, easier access, easier construction and wiring, a more immersive experience and faster results. You can also build a peninsula or two into your layout, possibly for a city, yard or engine terminal.

An 8x8 layout won't sit on your pool table without legs along the perimeter because there will be too much sag if the only support is what in effect will be a large pedestal. You can certainly make an 8x8 so it divides into two sections but, even with lightweight construction (which we haven' talked about yet), the sections will be too cumbersome, if not to heavy, for one person to handle safely. The pieces will be a bear to store unless you have no scenery or structures more than a few inches high. And those features will be subject to serious damage while the train boards are on their edges.
                                                                                                                                                                                    -- D