engines

[popshall]

I am new and have set up some trains in my basement for my grandkids. They are not here often but they love trains and when they come over they will love to look at them and watch them run. I have bought two starter sets but now want to get a more powerful engine to pull several box cars up a pier set. the two engines I have will pull two cars and a caboose but if I add more they struggle to get up the hill. Any help would be appreciated.

[richg]

How about telling us which scale. We assuming Bachmann trains you have now.

Rich

[popshall]

Yes I have Bachmann and they are HO.

[jward]

which pier set are you using? what locomotives are you running. the answers to these questions can help determine how to solve your problem.....

just as a general rule of thumb, it is best to keep the steepness of any upgrade sections to 1/4" rise per full section of track. this is a 3% grade, a term you'll hear alot on this board. it is not advisable to exceed 3/8" persection under any circumstance. the steepness of the upgrade drastically affects the pulling power of your locomotives. and as a general rule, the smaller the locomotive, the worse the effect on on pulling power.

[popshall]

I have a EMDF9 union pacific and a EMDF9  Sante Fe and a 14 piece pier set item number 44474.

[jward]

while i was not able to find an exact match for your trestle set, the 44471 is a similar 14 piece set. what i found leads me to believe your problem is two problems in one, which sort of feed off each other.

first let's start with the trestle set. correct me if i'm wrong but it appears this is an over & under type of set. 7 graduated piers to bring the track high enough to pass over itself, then 7 omre to get you back down to ground level. the tallest piers should be about 3" in height. thus it would take 7 9" sections of track to reach the top. 7x9=63" of run for 3" or rise. that is about a 5 percent grade, far steeper than advisable for any locomotive.

the f9 is out of production, but the newest ones had only 4 wheels powered through a "pancake" motor which sat atop the truck as a self contained unit. the other 4 wheels roll free. thus, your locomotives probably only have half the pulling power they should.  add to that the fact that your upgrade is almost twice as steep as recommended, and you have locomotives which barely pull 2 cars.

what to do? well you have 3 options, or a combination of the 3.

1. lower the grade. if you extend the run so that your 3" of rise extend over 12 track sections instead of just 7, your locomotives will pull more.  consider replacing the trestle with a set of 3% inclines from woodland scenics.

2. try a different locomotive, one with all wheels powered. if you like the looks of your f9s, try the similar bachmann f7 or ft. more wheels driven equals more pulling power. plus you'll have better running, more robust locomotives in the process.

3. this one is a bit of a shot in the dark. your power trucks are self contained. it may be possible to replace the free wheeling trick with the power truck from the other locomotive. you'll have to rewire the locomotive in the process, and may have to make other modifications.

if it were my call i'd try both 1 and 2. the combination of better locomotives on a gentler upgrade should allow you to pull a respectable sized train. most of my bachmann locomotives will pull at least 5 cars on a 4% grade, one of them will pull 11.

if i had to choose just one option it would be to lower the grade. if you can get your grade down to 1/4" rise per track section i think you'll see dramatically increased pulling power from the locomotives you dop have, maybe up to 5 cars apiece.

[Doneldon]

pop-

Your best bet is to ease your grade. Doing so may allow your existing locomotives to do the work they are supposed to do, eliminating the need to purchase another loco in the process. I'm guessing that you have your piers set up so about 25% of the track goes up to a bridge, 25% comes back down and the rest is flat on the table at the level of the underpass. An easy way to stretch out the grade is to use the whole track to go up and down. You can do this by beginning your piers as close to the underpass as possible. Of course, that isn't very realistic. A good alternative is to have half of your tracks going down and half up. Imagine that your track is a figure eight standing up. The top of the top loop and the bottom of the bottom loop are at table level. From those points, the track running one direction goes up to the bridge and the track running the other direction goes down to the underpass. Voila! You have now doubled the distance your track runs for the needed climb, effectively lowering the grade by 50%. As a bonus, you'll have an interesting scenic possibility, like modeling a rock cut through which the underpass track runs.

I see that Jeff Ward suggesting using Woodland Scenic' styrofoam grade pieces. That's an excellent product and quite affordable. Another
option is a different pier set with more pieces and the ability to stretch out the grade.

                                                                                                                                  -- D

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

For an easier (half) gradient, buy two sets and shim every other pier half the difference.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik   

[jward]

joe,

the only problem with that idea is that the op appears to be using an older set before ez track. finding another identical pier set may be a problem. bachmann's current catalog only includes items for ez track.

[jbrock27]

Pops,

In addition to the importance as previously stated, about the loco having the benefit of all of its wheels being powered, I have always found that the heavier in weight the locomotive is, the better puller it is, including up a grade.  I have some locomotives, ones made by Athearn that weigh a little over a pound and pull much better than a couple other locos I have (one of them a newer Bachmann Blue Box) that weigh a 1/3 less than that.  Also, while not a an absolute I have found the heavier (in my view also better quality locos) also have flywheels on the motors.  To me, a sign of a better quality motor than one that does not have flywheels.

Hope this helps

[Doneldon]

Also, while not a an absolute I have found the heavier (in my view also better quality locos) also have flywheels on the motors.  To me, a sign of a better quality motor than one that does not have flywheels.

jb-

I tend to agree that heavier locos pull better but I'm not so sure that the presence of flywheels signals better motors. However, flywheels
do contribute to smoother running, especially at lower speeds, and an ability to function through turnouts and intermittent power cuts.
That seems to be true even when  comparing identical locos with the same motor; the flywheel will give better and more reliable operation.

                                                                                                                                                   -- D

[teliczan]

We just purchased a Bachmann Spectrum loco, item #84554, an "N" scale Chesapeake & Ohio 2-8-0 steamer with DCC equipped.  We run two Bachmann "N" scale tracks, powered by an Athern standard power pack.  We have two other steamers (non-DCC), and they run at full speed.

The new C & O steamer with DCC runs very slow;  we have to turn the throttle up to full to get it to move at all.  Not the case with our other two non-DCC engines.

My question:  is there something we have to do to the DCC equipped engine to get it to run faster?  Please help.  Thank you.  Stan

[jward]

yes there are two things you can do. either run it on dcc or remove the decoder.

the circuitry requires about 5-6 volts just to "wake up"......this is not a problem on dcc where full voltage is on the track at all times. but trying to run a decoder on dc means you'll lose half or more of your speed control. since the decoder itself is using about 5-6 volts, and it is in series with the motor, it follows that your top speed will be whatever the locomotive runs at on the leftover voltage.

if your locomotive came with a dummy plug, unplug the decoder and use the dummy plug instead.

[teliczan]

Great information!!!  I will locate the decoder and use the dummy plug.  Thank you.  Stan

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Hey Pops, I didn't pick up on if your problem is pulling power(stall) or wheel spin. If its wheelspin you may want to try something like "bullfrog snot"(TM.) to improve traction. Ive picked up on it from the n-scale people. A removable, paint on traction wheel. I also get best pulls out of most trains(o&n) with single power trucks to the rear. Im kinda new to n, but in O, on a grade, any steamer outpulls other style loco's of same weight (but on a flat williams/bachmann dual can GG1 wins hands down) Wont help you much but in three rail O, one rail can be covered with 2-sided tape for INCREDIBLE traction (mine is over 6%) The top side of the tape is often too sticky at first, dust, lint, oily fingers, and time improve this method some.(check to see if your traction tire positioning still allows power flow. Loco's power pick up styles vary, some of my diesels must face one direction only to climb "taped grade")  Over all scales steamers rule, but for power-truck style loco in general, across all scales I would guess to say I hear more good stuff on fm trainmasters OR SD-units than any other type unit. But why not use a multi-engine lash? Find another used f9 and run a push-u-pull-me A-A.(non-dcc,(and some dcc) may require motor wire reversal,& speed matching) Also I cant remember the last time I saw a real life new, shiny, and 100% matching multi-motvive lashup. The last dozen I saw, most didnt even carry the same road name, let alone them being the same exact engine type. So my 2 cents worth is, LASH-UM BIG, RUN-UM LONG, & SMILE WIDE