Any chance for a GP-30 dummy unit?

[Cobrabob8]

Mr. Bach-man or 3rd Rail,
I was just wondering, any chance for non-powered dummy unit GP-30 diesel locomotives for those of us who wish to run multiple unit lash-ups? Purchasing two or three powered units is a bit costly for some of us. And I really like to run my road locos in multiple unit lash-ups! What do you think? Perhaps you could even package a powered and dummy unit together as is done with the F3s, FAs and PAs. I know a few years back brand "L" packaged three GP-9s together as a set, that would be great too! The locos could all have different cab numbers.
    Would anyone else out there be interested in GP-30 powered and non-powered locomotives? The new GP-30 is a nice piece with great detail. A non-powered NYC GP-30 would really make my day! A powered and dummy set of of PRR and B&O GP-30s would be nice.
Cobrabob.


As you can see, here are my Williams by Bachmann Alco FAs and Baldwin RF-16 Sharknose A-B-As.

[raider409]

I think everyone would not mind unpowered units. Single units pull enough power from the transformers now without putting more strain on them.  And like you said, it's more prototypical to run back to back units.  Hope your plea to WBB gets you some kind of response.  Good luck, and happy railroading.

Steve

[coolwaldo]

 I'm with you Cobra. The dummy's would be nice to have.    I wish WBB made switch engines with dummy's to match  too !

[3rail]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input; it is always appreciated. However, I would not hold my breath for these. Over the past 10 years, we have seen a big decline in the demand for dummy units. Additionally, the lighting board is dependent on the reverse board, so the cost would be much closer to the powered units than in the past. I would advise buying a second powered unit.

Regards,

3rail

[Cobrabob8]

#rail,
Is it possible to make it so that a second GP-30 unit will always start in reverse so that I can run them back to back rather than "elephant style"?
Cobrabob.

[Joe Satnik]

(This should really be in frequently asked questions.)

Dear CobraBob,

Pretty straightforward.

First, for future reference, mark down the (normal) order of the wire colors on the 4-pin connectors.  

(Both front and rear connector plugs should have their wire colors in the same order.)

The 4-pin connectors from the trucks that plug into the reverser board each have a YELLOW motor wire and a BLUE motor wire.  

Swap* the yellow for the blue, and the blue for the yellow on one truck's 4-pin connector, repeat for the other truck's 4-pin connector.  

*3-rail advises: "To remove the wire's pin from the connector,
use a paper clip to depress the locking pin on the side of the plug and GENTLY pull the pin from the socket."

I highly recommend that you unplug the sound board (2-pin plug) from the reverser board in the trailing loco.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Edit: Changed pin removal technique to 3rail 's.  Took out colored lettering.   

 

[Cobrabob8]

Thanks Joe!
Cobrabob.
I copied and saved your reply!

[671]

Hi Joe Satnik and Cobrabob,

           Am I mistaken? On the Electronic E-unit board are there not two motor plugs with two wires to each plug? The front of the engine electric motor turns the front truck wheels forward and the rear electric motor turns the truck wheel backward in relation to the truck. If this is the case, possibly switching the plugs on the board with each other's location, should cause the loco to start in reverse.
            I have not had one of my diesels open in a while, but that is how I remember it in my mind's eye.

                                                 671

[phillyreading]

Maybe I don't know enuff about the new WBB unpowered units, but in the past Williams before Bachmann just wired the lights straight to the center rail pick-up and the frame, had no kind of circuit board for lighting. At least that is how Williams did it with the Crown Edition unpowered or dummy A units.

Lee F.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear 671,

I'm working off of a 2004 era W.E.T.  2 motor diesel (GP-38) with a 6 amp reverser board and  TBII sound board.

<1  blue    front motor non-dot terminal
  2  black   front outer rails return
  3  red      front center rail pickup
<4  yellow front motor dotted terminal

4>  yellow rear motor non-dot terminal
3    red      rear center rail pickup
2    black   rear outer rails return
1>  blue    rear motor dotted terminal

Both the front truck and rear truck 4 pin plugs are "keyed", meaning they can only be plugged into the sockets on the reverser board in the keyed direction.

Both sockets are wired (PCB foiled?) the same, (Upper Socket Pin1 = Lower Socket Pin1, P2=P2, etc.) so swapping the front and rear 4-pin plugs doesn't change any electrical connection.

The front and rear truck motors, however, have to work (spin) in opposite directions.

This is accomplished by a polarity reversal right at the motor:

The front truck has a yellow wire soldered to its "dotted" motor terminal,

the rear truck has a blue wire soldered to its "dotted" motor terminal.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik       

[671]

Hi Joe,

       I will try to open up my GP 38 Santa Fe. It was purchased in 2012. I will double check the wiring in that unit's reverser board. I would think that it is the same for the brand new units.
        I'll get back to you on this.
        It is cold here on Long Island, great weather to play with trains.
        The Greenberg toy Train show is coming to Long Island Feb 9-10 at Queens college. I need to go and spend some time there and some money ( I am addicted ).
        I hope Williams will have a booth there. I would like to talk to them about their products. This GG-I challenge that has shown up, could cause mistrust in their product line.
        I would like them to install smoke on - off switches, series or parallel, Reverser board lockout.  Up grade kits for sound. Lighting up-grade kits to diodes.
        I for one like to tinker. I am sure other fellow hobbyists at times feel a need to upgrade their current stable of locos and cars.
        Some smoke from a caboose, or Madison car. One loco's whistle different from another's. I have 5 Williams by Bachmann Steamers, They all blow the same style and report. This could easily be changed with an optional sound chip. I am sure that would sell.
         I live in a very populated area of the country. I have easy access to many products that maybe fellow hobbyist don't. It would be nice to give them a plug and play options for the"Toys" we love. Let them customize to their needs and wants.
         Guys with Harleys and pick-up trucks customize their hobby/ride, why can't others have the same option without the threat of VOIDING the warranty?
         This threat causes people not to modify their trains to satisfy their needs and wants. It causes the hobbyist to look elsewhere.
         We all do not have unlimited space and funds for our trains. I for one have too little space for the amount of trains that I have. I now have fun,relaxation, enjoyment. etc. by upgrading and improving my trains looks and performance.

                                  Keep on Chuggin'...671

[3rail]

671,

Joe is correct. You need to reverse both wires on both motors to make the loco start in reverse. This essentially reverses the polarity of the DC going to the motors. You cannot simply swap the plugs on the reverse board it will not do anything. Additionally, you cannot turn the plug upside down because the plug is keyed for one direction. The easiest way is to release the wires from the plug and change the position of the blue and yellow wires. This loco is wired a little differently previous diesels due to the lighting boards and the lock out switch. I will have to take one apart to refresh my memory, but I think both sets of motor leads go into one plug.  If you follow the motor leads back to the reverse you can verify this. Then unplug the plug or plugs from the reverse board, use a paper clip to depress the locking pin on the side of the plug and GENTLY pull the pin from the socket. Reverse the position of the pins connected to the yellow and blue wires and the loco will start in reverse.  We are attending the Amherst show this weekend, so I will try to do a step by step tutorial with photos on the frequently asked questions section of the board when we get back.

OR if you are only running GP30's, they have a lockout switch, so lock one in reverse and the other in forward when you start your operating session.

Regards,

3rail

[Cobrabob8]

3rail,
Thank you for the info on the new GP-30 diesel locomotives. The lockout switch is a great feature. That is how I usually run two powered "brand L" locos, I lock atleast one of them out in forward.
Cobrabob.

[M1FredQ]

From my model airplane days there are all kinds of after market kits to add more realistic detail to cockpits and landing gear, engines and machine guns.

With trains it would be interesting if there were an enterprising aftermarket company that produced cabs for the steamers and diesels.

[Joe Satnik]

http://s574.beta.photobucket.com/user/SunfireGT1996/media/Cab%20Interiors%20for%20Williams%20by%20Bachmann/DSC00190-1.jpg.html