Bachmann Northern 4-8-4 3783 (#58152)

[grahament]

I have read a lot on line about this loco and how to improve smooth running. Mine is part# 58152 with running # 3783. It's not bad and I have taken it apart and lubricated/cleaned it carefully. It does however still jerk and stall now and then. I am not sure if this is caused by eletrical cut out or by the conn rods jamming (have been lubed several times). I still have not found out exactly where the eletrical conacts or "feelers" are that pick up power from the wheels, even with the diagram (does not have part #'s described). Mine does not have any pickup on the front pony truck or tender.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/N821X-IS001.PDF

Any help/words of wisdom much appreciated. Can anyone put a part # to the electrical pickups in the above diagram?

Thanks..

[seadowns]

Hi!
Is it really the new DCC-ready J-class you have or is it the older version. I don't know the older one but the new J has tender pickup for sure.
No matter if you run it DC or DCC the tender provides power via these thin wires between tender and loco. Make sure this will work because if not the behavior is like you experienced.
These wires on some of my J's, brand new out of the box, showed some shiny copperish spots now and then and I suspected them to short out in curves if they can touch among or the metal body.
Then I tried out some of no longer used nail enamel from my wife and coated these spots. Tell you what----> the loco runs like a swiss watch after doing so.
So is my conclusion: these wiring is the main flaw with these J's and if anything else is ok as well they're really nice engines.

[skipgear]

Hi!
Is it really the new DCC-ready J-class you have or is it the older version. I don't know the older one but the new J has tender pickup for sure.
No matter if you run it DC or DCC the tender provides power via these thin wires between tender and loco. Make sure this will work because if not the behavior is like you experienced.
These wires on some of my J's, brand new out of the box, showed some shiny copperish spots now and then and I suspected them to short out in curves if they can touch among or the metal body.
Then I tried out some of no longer used nail enamel from my wife and coated these spots. Tell you what----> the loco runs like a swiss watch after doing so.
So is my conclusion: these wiring is the main flaw with these J's and if anything else is ok as well they're really nice engines.

The part number and road number given is for a Santa Fe Northern. N&W J class loco's were numbered in the 600 series. He has linked to the wrong exploded view. Here is the correct exploded view:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/58052.pdf

I have read a lot on line about this loco and how to improve smooth running. Mine is part# 58152 with running # 3783. It's not bad and I have taken it apart and lubricated/cleaned it carefully. It does however still jerk and stall now and then. I am not sure if this is caused by eletrical cut out or by the conn rods jamming (have been lubed several times). I still have not found out exactly where the eletrical conacts or "feelers" are that pick up power from the wheels, even with the diagram (does not have part #'s described). Mine does not have any pickup on the front pony truck or tender.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/N821X-IS001.PDF

Any help/words of wisdom much appreciated. Can anyone put a part # to the electrical pickups in the above diagram?

Thanks..

The Santa Fe Northern only uses the main drivers for pickup. There are no additional wipers anywhere on the loco. There are no wipers on the main drivers either because pickup is accomplished through the split frame and axle bearings of the wheels which are electrically active.  The loco works much better when you add tender pickup.

Something you can do in the meantime is run the loco. Because of the blackening on the frame and the drivers, electrical contact is compromised from the get go. The best thing for the loco is to set it on a loop of track and let it run for a couple hours. This will polish the axle bearing surface on the frame and the drivers, allow the drivers to wear into the bearing pockets a little bit and equalize themselves and generally let the locomotive drive train free up considerably.

[seadowns]

Oh, I'm sorry about that!
Skipgear, you are absolutely right, I just saw the diagram and then dropped it. My J's are numbered 608 and 611!

Regards
Mathi

[grahament]

Thanks "Skipgear"...you are right, I had posted the wrong diagram. Thanks for the correct one.

"pickup is accomplished through the split frame and axle bearings of the wheels which are electrically active"

Thanks for also answering the question. So power is picked up through the axles directly contacting the body of the loco right?
I do let this one run for a long time and it does improve after a while. That would explain it, polishing the contact surfaces.

[Shawn in Virginia]

I have a northern #58161 that I am converting to a Gt. Northern S-2.  Part of the conversion involved changing
the tender to a bachmann #89453.  This tender has pickups on all wheels, so it was easy to add some decoder
wire to join the engine and tender together electricly.  I used 2 00-90 screws in holes drilled and tapped in the
split frames in the backhead aeria.  Once this was complete,  no more stalling.  There was some jerking and close
check revealed that the rear driver was slightly out of time.  I have re timed it twice, and if necessary, will add
a drop of super glue on the end of the axle, which should cure that problem.

[grahament]

"Something you can do in the meantime is run the loco. Because of the blackening on the frame and the drivers, electrical contact is compromised from the get go. The best thing for the loco is to set it on a loop of track and let it run for a couple hours. This will polish the axle bearing surface on the frame and the drivers, allow the drivers to wear into the bearing pockets a little bit and equalize themselves and generally let the locomotive drive train free up considerably."

My Northern 4-8-4 is running really nicely now..thanks for the advice and info. One final question: the only time it falters now is on the "turnouts" or "points" as we Brits call them. I have confirmed using a meter that the "frog" is powered on all 3 turnouts on my main line lay out. Any ideas why it would still hesitate when going over them?

Thanks...

[rustycoupler]

 I also have a question, How is the motor isolated from the frame halves,is there enough room in there to solder the gray and orange wires from the decoder to the motor without taking the drive wheels apart.

[skipgear]

"Something you can do in the meantime is run the loco. Because of the blackening on the frame and the drivers, electrical contact is compromised from the get go. The best thing for the loco is to set it on a loop of track and let it run for a couple hours. This will polish the axle bearing surface on the frame and the drivers, allow the drivers to wear into the bearing pockets a little bit and equalize themselves and generally let the locomotive drive train free up considerably."

My Northern 4-8-4 is running really nicely now..thanks for the advice and info. One final question: the only time it falters now is on the "turnouts" or "points" as we Brits call them. I have confirmed using a meter that the "frog" is powered on all 3 turnouts on my main line lay out. Any ideas why it would still hesitate when going over them?

Thanks...

The only cure for that is adding tender pickups. The loco is relying on about an inch worth of wheels contacting the rails to get pickup. Going over the frogs gives the wheels more chance to lose contact with the rail and thus electrical contact.

[skipgear]

I also have a question, How is the motor isolated from the frame halves,is there enough room in there to solder the gray and orange wires from the decoder to the motor without taking the drive wheels apart.

Contact from the frame to the motor is via two brass clips. They are easy to remove so that you can solder wires for a decoder. Make sure to insulate the motor from the frame a little better because it is possible for the motor to rock in its frame and short agains the frame which will make a decoder let the magic smoke out. Ask me how I know.

[grahament]

Thanks Skipgear...

[axle17921]

There is a guy who makes electrical pickup kits for the Bachmann N scale Northern, here is the link  http://www.richmondcontrols.com/  Just click on the electrical contacts  section.

[Desertdweller]

I added tender pickup to my Bachmann Santa Fe Northern today, and it really makes a difference!
I used a couple axle wipers from an old Bachmann 65' passenger car.  I have a set of these cars, but didn't care for the lighting, so removed it from these cars.  Left me with some good axle wipers.

To do this, make sure your insulated tender wheels are on the same side on all four axles in a truck, and that the side insulated is opposite for each truck.

I found some very light insulated wire (came on diodes) and cut several inches of red and green wire.  I soldered each wire to the backside of each wheel wiper.  The wiper will contact the two center axles on each truck.  I drilled two holes in the tender floor, one above each truck, beyond the internal weight.  I filed a couple small notches in the front of the tender frame to hold the wires as they exit the tender body.

The regular screws that hold on the trucks pass through holes in the center of the wipers.

I tried to buy a micro connector at Radio Shack, but they didn't have anything small enough.  So I gathered some extra wire in the loco cab and hard wired them to the loco by soldering them to the little copper contacts above each motor brush.

I tested the system by powering a test track under the tender only, and observing that the loco moved.  I had no way to test polarity, and when I sat the loco and tender on the test track it resulted in a short.
So I desoldered the wire connections I had just made to the motor and switched sides.  That did it.

When I tried the loco on the model railroad it was hard to believe it was the same engine!

Next, I am going to try the nail polish trick on the frame, as I saw some sparking on a curve.  I also need to adjust again the flat spring I installed over the front truck.

The suggestions I have read here have been very helpful in improving the performance of this engine.  It is really an impressive looking engine, and it can be a good runner with a little help.

Les