Turnout Problem - They went that away

[pacchardon]

I am having problems with a standard remote Atlas Snap Switch turnout. The switch is set for the train to turn off to the right. The loco makes the turn without any problem but the rolling stock it's pulling insist on going straight.  Needless to say, this don't work so good. I don't know if it would make a difference but the switch machine is not yet wired and being operating manually. Any thoughts, anyone?

[Doneldon]

paccy-

If you have no switch machine it could be that the points are migrating off of the stock rails and allowing the train to choose which line to follow. Underweight rolling stock will sometimes find an odd path through a turnout, too. Or, stiff connections between a loco and tender or between rolling stock can twist cars the wrong way.
                             -- D

[jward]

hide the switchpoint. you can sharpen the point with a file, or try to file a notch in the stock rail, though that would be difficult. you could also try putting a kink in the stock rail just ahead of the points, to push the wheel flanges away from the point.

the best solution of all would be to replace the snap switch with a #4. snap switches are notorious for derailments.

[pacchardon]

I was playing around with it today and have figured out what triggers the derailment but I don't understand why. If someone can tell me how to post an image I will post a couple to show whats going on. Is an image posted as an attachment?

[Ken G Price]

hide the switchpoint. you can sharpen the point with a file, or try to file a notch in the stock rail, though that would be difficult. you could also try putting a kink in the stock rail just ahead of the points, to push the wheel flanges away from the point.
the best solution of all would be to replace the snap switch with a #4. snap switches are notorious for derailments.

I have a switch that last week started to push a set of wheels into the diverging route every time an engine or cars went over it from the points end. 
I tried all of the usual remedies, but none worked.
So I put a small drop of solder in front of the point where it touched the rail.
Problem solved. 
And like your idea it pushed the wheels aside just enough to keep all the wheels moving in the correct direction.
So I feel that solder might be a better solution then trying to do some thing with the rail.

[JerryB]

First, is it always the same switch and / or the same car?

Next, have you used a track and wheel gauge to check the turnout dimensions and the back to back spacing of every wheelset. If you don't have a gauge, you can get them at hobby shops or from the NMRA. It is a really necessary piece of equipment.

Most derailing problems are caused either by improper gauge somewhere in the turnout, or by the back to back spacing of the wheels being incorrect. I don't place any rolling stock on the railroad without checking and adjusting the back to back wheel spacing.

Hope this helps & Happy RRing,

Jerry

[glennk28]

a "Snap Switch" is not necessarily ibnterchangeable with a #4--they have different geometry.  If you are following a published plan  this can cause things yo not fit.

I picked up on this in discussions with John Armstrong  and Ted Stepek many years ago.


OTOH, if  the diverging track is just a spur, should not be a problem.

gj

[pacchardon]

I played with this some more and found what is triggering the derailing. I was hoping to post a picture because it would easier than explaining but here goes. The Snap Switch turnout is separated from a #4 turnout by a standard piece of 6" track. The 'Y' portion of each is pointed outward. The turnout portion of each are going in the same direction. Passing straight thru the #4 turnout thru the straight track to the Snap switch turnout the train derails while making the turn on the Snap Switch if the points on the #4 turnout are set to make a turn. It doesn't derail if the points on the #4 turnout are set to go straight. In other words the setting of the #4 turnout is triggering the derailing on the Snap switch turnout. I verified this multiple times.

[NarrowMinded]

So it derails while making a sort of "S" turn through the switches? 

Does it do it with the switches thrown opisite?

If you back the train through the switches do they still derail?

If you hold the switch so the points stay hard against the rail does it still do it?

I had this issue with a G-scale turn out and it was because the top of the points were too low. to correct the issue I used paper under the sliding parts the hold the points once I got them to work great I used ca glue and glued the paper inplace the coated it with CA glue once set, I lightly sanded it then Re-assembled the switch, this is easy to do with a g scale switch, Ho is another story.

NM-Jeff

[pacchardon]

It is not a 'S' curve. This "'The turnout portion of each are going in the same direction." sb "The turnout portion of each are on the same side"  It looks like this  ___\__________/___ , the right turnout being the #4.

1) If the points on the #4 are set to go straight, the train going left thru it has no problem making the turn on the Snap turnout. Set the points on the #4 to turn and the train derails on the Snap turnout.

2) The derailing occurs at high speeds. going in either direction at lower speed does not cause a derailment.

3) If you hold the switch hard against the rail the train does not derail.

Last night, I increased the length of track btwn the turnouts and run the train thru 20 some times. The increased length definitely decreased the occurrance of the problem.  Today I will probably separate them some more.

At this point, it appears to me that going thru the #4 when the points are set to turn are probably causing some instability the rolling stock did not have sufficent time to recover from.

[NarrowMinded]

Untill you get switch machines install place a nail or tack a short distance from points and use a rubberband to hold pressure on the switch so you can run with out the issue.

Nm-Jeff

[Jerrys HO]

Ken-

This was one of the best remedies I have read and it works flawlessly.

[/quote]

So I put a small drop of solder in front of the point where it touched the rail.
Problem solved. 

It is also easier to file down if it throws the wheel sets off to much.

Thanks Jerry

[jward]

a "Snap Switch" is not necessarily ibnterchangeable with a #4--they have different geometry.  If you are following a published plan  this can cause things yo not fit.

I picked up on this in discussions with John Armstrong  and Ted Stepek many years ago.


OTOH, if  the diverging track is just a spur, should not be a problem.

gj

yes that is true. but the snap switch is so much more trouble prone due to it's sharpness that any reworking of track plans to eliminate them is a small price to pay for the huge improvement in operating reliability.

snap switches are not designed for use in yards or crossovers. using them in such situations introduces an 18" radius s curve into your track plan. that's just begging for trouble.

[jward]

pacchardon.

coming through the #4 at high speed probably means your wheel flanges are riding the outside rail pretty hard. if the point on the snap swiotch has a blunt end or isn't properly contoured, the wheel flange will pick it. you probably don't get this problem when the #4 is straight because the wheel flanges aren;t riding in the same place.

[pacchardon]

I increased the distance again and the problem has vanished. The additional distance is probably allowing the train returned to a more stable movement. Thanks for the help everyone.