How much could I get for a stock decoder from a 2-8-0?

[DaveMFnC]

I'm gonna sell the thing to my LHS and I just want to know what it's worth (to SOMEone) I use cab control and have no interest in switching to DCC so, yeah. I figure it's not worth 80-100$ but the price difference in the "DCC ready" and "DCC equipped" 2-8-0 is about that price. So what should I ask for?

BTW, I got the 2-8-0 WITH decoder for 79.99$ I guess the guy thought it was just "DCC ready" I was happy with the price. 

[ABC]

The Bachmann decoder is only worth about $20, the engine is worth about $70 without the decoder and without the one year warranty to the original buyer.

[pdlethbridge]

You can still run the engine on DC by default without a problem

[Atlantic Central]

Dave, I just sold 3 of them as a lot on Ebay for abot $40. They are not worth much because similar or obetter decoders are available from other companies for about $15 each.

pdlethbridge - While you are correct about the loco running on DC, I would dispute the "without a problem" part in every case. Dual mode DCC decoders are known to not like all wave forms in use with DC control.

Many transistor type packs or walk around throttles use such circuits and many react poorly with decoders.

Better DC performance is almost allways acheived by removing the decoder and inserting the jumpers.

Additionally, Bachmann locos run on DC will benifit from the removal of the RF suppression capacitors on the circuit board. Slow speed, especsially on these same transistor throttles, but also on most all DC packs, is improved by this modification.

Sheldon

[full maxx]

Dave, I just sold 3 of them as a lot on Ebay for abot $40. They are not worth much because similar or obetter decoders are available from other companies for about $15 each.

pdlethbridge - While you are correct about the loco running on DC, I would dispute the "without a problem" part in every case. Dual mode DCC decoders are known to not like all wave forms in use with DC control.

Many transistor type packs or walk around throttles use such circuits and many react poorly with decoders.

Better DC performance is almost allways acheived by removing the decoder and inserting the jumpers.

Additionally, Bachmann locos run on DC will benifit from the removal of the RF suppression capacitors on the circuit board. Slow speed, especsially on these same transistor throttles, but also on most all DC packs, is improved by this modification.

Sheldon

so I would benefit from removing the decoder on both my engines and run them on dc with the jumpers

[full maxx]

My berkshire did not come with dummy plugs, where can I get them?

[Atlantic Central]

Maxx, contact the service department. But, check your packaging carefully. On the Berkshires I have purchaced, the jumpers were in a small plastic bag tucked into the pastic sleeve that cover the loco. You could have easily not seen them and dropped the little bag without knowing it.

I knew to watch for them when unpacking the loco, but they could easily be misplaced if you were not looking for them.

Yes, you loco will run better on DC without the decoder. Especailly if you have a more advanced DC pack.

Sheldon

[full maxx]

I have a new Spectrum New York Central set and I have kept everything from the set and the Berkshire so I will go back through it looking for the plugs but If they are gone will the service dept. send me new ones ...and thanks for the reply

[Chris350]

I bet your local shop will have a bunch of them.  Some of the plugs look like small circuit boards with 8 pins others are 1/2 round metal objects that look a little like four tooth combs.

[wjstix]

First, as noted, there's no need to remove the decoder, it doesn't affect how your engine will run on DC.

Second, unfortunately the decoders Bachmann uses are very cheap ones with minimal options compared to other decoders. Most notably, because you can't set the CVs for top speed and midrange speed, you can't speed-match the engines with other engines. Most DCC modellers remove the decoder and basically chuck it and replace it with a better one from TCS, NCE or Digitrax.

[ABC]

First, as noted, there's no need to remove the decoder, it doesn't affect how your engine will run on DC.

That statement is not always true, occasionally it will run a little better in DC with the jumpers installed as opposed to leaving the decoder in, but usually there is not much of a difference.

[DieCastoms]

First, as noted, there's no need to remove the decoder, it doesn't affect how your engine will run on DC.

I was under the impression that a DCC loco on DC track took much more power to start moving than a DC loco on the same track, because, even running on analog mode, the decoder has to have enough voltage to power up first?  Is this not true?

[Note: ABC touched on this while I was posting.  I decided to post anyway ]

I am glad I read this post.  I was not aware that there are no top or mid speed settings in BMann stock decoders?  Is that accurate?  What other features aren't included?

Mike from DieCastoms

[rich1998]

i have measured the voltage and a dcc sound loco sounds did not start untilthere was about 5 volts dc on the track. the loco started to move around 7 to 9 volts dc. depends on the quality of the loco, gear reduction, type of motor, etc.
note, a dual mode decoder on a dc track still sends pulse power to the motor. the motor only gets pure dc on a layout with only dc power.
the dual mode decoders always produces pule power, sometimes called pwm. pulse width modulation.

explanation below.

http://www.loystoys.com/info/pulse-width-modulation.html

lex

[Atlantic Central]

lexon,

Many DC power packs also use some sort of pulse width modulation to control model trains.

Dual mode sound decoders provide poor speed control on DC because the speed range is compressed into a smaller voltage range.

On a DC system, pulse width or otherwise, locos typically start moving at 2-3 volts and have full voltage outputs of about 13-14 volts. Allowing a range of at least 10 volts for speed control.

Because of the startup voltage for the sound system and decoder power, dual mode sound decoders, as you noted, do not generally move the train until 7 volts, or 50% throttle. Leaving only a range of 6-7 volts for speed control.

To assume that dual mode decoders will provide better control than regular DC is to not understand the technolgy. There are lots of variables that effect all of this.

I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer DC throttles and many dual mode decoders simply will not work smoothly or correctly with them.

In my opinion, the DC performance of EVERY dual mode sound decoder I have ever seen is unaceptable.

Sheldon

[Jim Banner]

The specs for Bachmann's after market decoder can be found at this link:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/ez_content/1_Amp_Decoder_Instr.pdf

Decoders used in DCC on board locomotives may vary.

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The only decoder that I am aware of that is fully transparent on dc is the Digitrax DG383/583 series.  If you install one of these in one locomotive of a matched pair, then run the locomotives on dc, it is virtually impossible to tell which locomotive has the decoder.  Unfortunately, these large decoders are intended for large scale locomotives.

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Going back to the original question, there is not much of a market for used decoders, not when you can buy excellent basic decoders like the Digitrax DH123 for about $15.50 or full featured decoders c/w BEMF for less than $20.  The extra $80 to $100 for a decoder equipped locomotive is based on the cost of a decoder plus the cost of installation.  (It seems that people are more willing to pay $60 to $80 on every locomotive they buy than to spend the same amount once to buy a decent soldering iron and learn to solder.)  A  Bachmann decoder can be bought brand new with warranty for about $18.  Used, with no warranty, your LHS might be able to sell it for $9.  This means he can probably afford to give you $4 or $5 for it.

Jim