converting horn hook couplers to knuckle couplers.

[Jhanecker2]

Having changed over a number      of couplers  to both   Kadee  & Bachmann Knuckle couplers   and having  used  adapters and  Coupler height gauges and all the other tools , I have come to the conclusion there is no  RIGHT way  to make changes .  Some people  love to do  manual labor  and others  don't . Some either can't and others don't want  to .    I enjoy the process  of building  virtually anything and was a model builder for decades before  I got into model railroading . Model railroading offers so many different levels of participation , and  unless you are manufacturere or a dealer  is still just a hobby.  John2.

[jbrock27]

I have come to the conclusion there is no  RIGHT way  to make changes .  John2.

Would you disagree that it is a smart (right) and sensible idea to add weight to a piece of rolling stock that is also having its couplers converted from horn hook to knuckle style? (Assuming as more than likely as I pointed out earlier, that such a car is VERY likely grossly underweighted).

Would you disagree that it is a smart (right) and sensible idea to, when updating such a car, to also implement some ability through modification of how the trucks are secured or employing the use of a coupler box (if the car does not already have a coupler box) in order to be able to achieve correct height for the couplers? (Assuming one bothers to purchase a height gauge).

[jward]

If you don't have the tools, which many starting out don't, then adding body mount Kadees to locos and cars with truck mounted couplers isn't such a 'piece of cake'. Which is what makes the Life-Like knuckle coupler, or Kadee 212 adaptors, a good interim step for beginners.

They get rid of the worst problem with horn-hooks, the side pressure on the trucks when backing, while allowing more realistic switching option.

these adapters do not, I repeat, do NOT get rid of the sideways pressure on the trucks. how could they? even if the use of knuckle couplers lessens the sideways pressure at the coupler itself, you are STILL pushing on a lever (the talgo arm) directly attatched to the truck. and ANY sideways pressure on this lever whatsoever is going turn the truck frame. it is basic physics. it also follows that the more cars you are trying to push against, the greater this sideways pressure will be. this is why body mounted couplers are so much better for backing cars. by transmitting this sideways pressure to the car body itself, the trucks stay more in line with the rails, thus are less likely to derail.

[Len]

I was speaking of the sideways pressure from the horn-hook's spring that pushes it to one side. That creates even more side pressure on the talgo arm you mention, making the likelyhood of a derailment even higher. Since their springs center, and not push to the side, I've found switching to knuckles in the talgo arm, whether Life-Like or Kadees with the 212 adaptor, greatly reduces derailments when backing.

With horn-hooks almost any backing move, even on straight track, can result in a derailment. With knuckles in the trucks, it mostly happens in an S-curve situation, e.g., backing through a switch with an opposite curve to create a parallel track.

Len

[Jhanecker2]

To Jbrock27 :    To  do whatever is necessary  to fix  any problem  with your rolling stock is always sensible and during coupler transition  is an excellent time. Unfortunately manufacturers  do not always pick the  best design  principals  to create their products  long term reliability  , but  ease of  manufacture and
profits are usually the  overriding factors . It is a business after  all .    Regarding  coupler boxes being body mounted  I am a fan .  I also believe that  Screw mounted trucks are much superior to snap in  connectors , since they allow for tuning in the trucks. John2.

[jbrock27]

To  do whatever is necessary  to fix  any problem  with your rolling stock is always sensible and during coupler transition  is an excellent time...Screw mounted trucks are much superior to snap in  connectors , since they allow for tuning in the trucks. John2.

So you would agree then with my point/s?     There will be an inherent problem if the knuckle couplers cannot be adjusted to be at the proper (and uniform) height.  Installing or modifyng and adapting trucks in that manner not only provides for "tuning" (tension) but also provides for one additional height adjustment option vs no such option with keeping the stock talgo trucks in place.   I am considering ALL of these things (including weight) when I first consider replacing horn hook couplers with knuckle ones.

[jward]

I think jbrock is right on the money on this.

[jbrock27]

I thank you Mr. Ward.