Quote from: rogertra on July 11, 2012, 04:58:42 PM
You don't have a stall. you have a dead short.

A stall is even though power is applied, the units are working, they cannot pull the load up the grade.  That's a stall.

It seems what what you have is a dead short as both engines stop working.

Basic trouble shooting is required. 

- Do both motors stop turning?

- Do all headlights go out?

- Does any other motive power in the power district also stop?

If the answer is "yes" to any of the above that = Dead short.

Run each locomotive round the curve, up the grade and through the dip on its own.

If one or both short as they run though on their own, then you know the trouble is either inside the body shell or both locomotives are shorting due to the poorly laid track that creates the dip.

If neither shorts when running alone, then you know the problem is only caused when they are coupled together.

Try running just the locomotives, coupled together through the dip.

Which one shorts?  Just the lead or just the trailing unit?  Swap them around so that they take turns leading and see if it's always the same one that shorts?

You have to try all these combinations to find the fault.

-Yes, both motors stop turning. And then they start again. And then they stop. Then they start. Then they Stop. Then they start. Then they Stop. (I start saying colorful words and yank them off the layout) ecetra, ecetra, ecetra. As fast as your reading that is aabout how fast it happens. Its almost like dirty wheels more than it is what I think of as a dead short. Hence why I'm here. Amd tey are moving a miniscule distance.

-Yes. See above.

-yes. When they do this stuttering short, it fubars other engines in the block. I'll gety back to you tomorrow as to whether or not they stutter as well or if their dead dead.

They won't act out if the other one is not on the layout, even if they're still consisted. So yes, it has something to do with them being together, but those are plastic couplers, so its not shorting through the coupler and they aren't touching bodies. Also, they'll run just fine for long parts of the layout, so the problem seems to be

bachmann GP7 5607+Bachmann GP7 5608+a few key spots in that particular block like the one I videoed=Stuttering/Pulsing/Rolling Dead Short.

So its either something about the track, or the wiring, that is disagreeing with the engines. (Ooh, trip pins maybe?) But since it seems to only be these engines, I came here. 

Quote from: rogertra on July 11, 2012, 12:29:06 AM
Hard to tell what the issue is without being there and without taking the lead locomotive apart.

What we do see are: -

The grade in the curve seems excessive.  Are these metal cars and are their bodies touching?

Can't really comment on the curve radius as from the viewing angle it's hard to tell.  If it's a sharp curve, less than say 28 inches, are the bodies touching?

There is a noticeable dip in the track where the lead engine stalls.  Wonder of this causes the locomotive to ground out, the fuel tank perhap?

Are you using all metallic couplers between the two locomotives?  That could cause a short.

What happens if the trailing unit becomes the lead unit, does the lead unit still stall?

1) Noted, and no. Those are Walthers coaches. Plastic bodies. Kadee Couplers, so if they are somehow communicating a current into the coupler screws and then into the lighting systems, but that's a fairly large if.
     1a) It's not the lighting systems in the coaches ut I have already ruled that out

2)Nope.

3)Hmm. Will add that to the list of things to check on

4)I don't believe I've changed the couplers out, I think those are the stock plastic ones. Will check when I get to club.

5)Both engines are stalling at the same time. Will check directional toggle again just to be sure, but I don't believe it matters.

Oh, and to keep in mind, the negines ARE pulling for that brief moment their lights come on. It's not actually a stall like I'm used to thinking of them, hence my calling it a stutter. They do also stall out other engines in the DCC block too when they act up

The radius there is I believe 30" but there is a known and documented bowl there nonetheless. It might only be 28.  There's a few spots it'll do it in, that's just where I caught it in. One's in the middle of a yard, the other's through the main with only a passing track and a short spur. I inherited Dad's voltmeter, not sure what type it is but I'll check it next time I'm down at the club.

The Headlight: No, the second loco does flicker with the first engine, both of them short until I take one of them off the track. You can't see it because some dummy stuck the throttle in the way, and if it weren't coupled to the train, then I could take the rear loco off and get the same result.

I don;t think the train makes a difference, but as I think about it, I'm not entirely sure about that, so I'll look at that as well, and try hand-pushing them through that bowl. As far as I know, it's only those engines, they're the only ones of mine that act up, and I haven't had any problems with the four Bachmann RF16s I've put through there, but its been a while since I've run them.

Thanks guys! I'll take the list with me and check these.

Posted this before, but I didn't get help, so I'll try again  with video this time.


A little video: Please note that the light flicker in the engines are the engines shorting out. These are stock Bachmann locomotives from the DCC line, and not one car on the train is derailed, nor is the engine I pick up off the track and put back on. The train is on a hill, the single GP is not strong enough to lift the train out of the bowlbut you can see its headlight is solid through the controller's cable, and as soon as I put the other engine back on, they run fine together. They were consisted on a 400 and then dumped so I could run them on my UT4. It doesn't matter which engine I pull off, and sometimes putting one of them back odoesn't fix it. They onyl do it in that section of the layout, so I'm inclined to think there's something they don't like about the way its blocked, but those two are the only engines that short like that through there. Different engines, different consists, different trains don't give anyone the same problem. It's just those two.

Quote from: Jim Banner on February 21, 2012, 08:05:33 PM
The term "DCC ready" means "designed in some way to make installing a decoder easier."  It does NOT mean that there is a decoder in the locomotive.  So first question, have you installed decoders in these locomotives or were you running them on dc (address 00)?  If you have installed decoders in them, what brand of decoders did you use?  If the decoders were other than Bachmann decoders, did you clip the capacitors in the locomotives before installing them?  These capacitors can cause the problem you describe if left in place when an ultrasonic (silent) decoder is installed.  The capacitors draw a lot of power from the decoder at the high frequencies that ultrasonic decoders use to drive motors.  The extra load on the decoder can cause it to intermittently go into thermal shutdown to protect itself.

Having to clear the slots in your Digitrax system reflects bad operating procedure, namely failure to set the speed to zero (not just stop) and dispatching it out of the system when removing a locomotive from the track.  Depending on how you do it, clearing the slots can also remove all of the consisting information from the system.  If that were the case, then only the lead locomotive in your consist would still be running after clearing the slots.  To run the other locomotive, you would have to reacquire it under its own address.  That assumes the locomotives have decoders and you used universal consisting.  If they have no decoders and you were running them consisted on address 00, this would be a basic consist and would not be affected by slot clearing.

Jim 

Jim, these are the DCC On Board GPs. 5607 is the current release and is in the catalog, and 5608 came before it. (Not in the catalogs anymore). These are using the stock decoders as they came from Bachmann. (Don't recall who made them for Bach, they're stripped down decoders though)

The slotmax issue was due to a large volume of engines being ran at the time and a part of the Digitrax brain having been out of commission more than it was failure to dispatch, but that problem is known. (I'm not up on part numbers, but it was essentially a part of the RAM). When I tried to run 5607 and 8 as a consist, they were stuttering, but if I took 5607 off and ran the consist under 5607 as the lead number, 5608 would respond normally as it should to the commands. Likewise, if I took 5608 off the track and ran just 5607, even consisted, it ran normally. There seemed to be something that they didn't like about each other.

Quote from: florynow on February 12, 2012, 12:04:00 PM


Lionel made toy trains and did lots of PRR-quasi-stuff because of the market they were in back then..... apparently not much different from now in certain arenas.  I hope that Bachmann is not becoming a toy train player in similar fashion.  With fewer sound equipped generic Spectrum steam locomotives (model-railroader-friendly undecorated models in particular)  and more non-prototypical Durango Silverton trains sets and way-bigger-is-way-better (but largely useless on a typically small layout) stuff like Schnabel cars ....... I don't know what to think.  I'm glad I have what (very nice out of production) Bachmann equipment that I have because I believe a drought is coming.

Fret not young one. I'd just about bet someone else's life that the reason we see so many DRGW overgauged engines is for one reason only: The DRGW.

Not many people model narrow gauge, but lots of people already have a Bachmann set, or their Dad's old layout, or something akin. So what's going to sell for the DRGW in their gift shop? HO or N, it's going to be a standard gauge. And if you really want to split hairs, the DRGW was at one time a dual guage railroad...

Far as the Schnabel car, Bachman will tell you the same thing, they sold it because there's a niche markwet of modern era modellers that wanted a nice High-Wide load and  didn't want to pay Brass prices and din't know the kit versions well enough. Had Bachman:China not done the groundwork for their Schnabel, Bach:USA wouldn't have retooled the molds to do it here.

If you want, take heart in that the 2012 catalog doesn't have the Schnabel cars in it. Cause I for one am sadly dissapointed that I may not have gotten a chance to get one.

(And was kinda hoping Bachmann might tool up some alternative loads) 

Maybe you canhelp me with an odd conundrum. I own two NYC GP7s DCC ready, 5607 and 5608. On their own, they run fine. However, of they occupy the same piece fo track, (consisted, hadn't thought to not run MU'd) they start to stutter, that is a ghalf second of running, then they stop, run a gain for a half second, stop, lather rinse repeat. not unlike a block with too many engines on it, but that's not the case. Introducing   third locomotive causes no problems for said locomotive (I didn't have any more Bachmanns with me to test with) and if I pull either 7 off the other begins to run normally. Dispatching and re-aquiring did solve the problem short term twice. 

Additionally, the layout just ended from a large ops session, and we did have to dump the memory once, although while both engines were on the layout, only one was operating. It's a Digitrax system.

So, is this a Digitrax issue, or a known bachmann problem, or what? I think it unlikely, as P2K, Digitrax decoders and Soundtrax units all worked fine in the same vicintity, although as I said, there was a large volume of rail traffic on the layout.

Quote from: on30gn15 on February 19, 2012, 05:58:24 PM
the Bachmann swinging coupler mounts I've encountered are attached by a lever assembly to the truck: some of it is under the floor molding. Could be hanging up on flash on floor molding is one thought coming to mind.

This, also, the couplers are mounted to the swing arm by a plastic peg on the top of the coupler box. This can after a while actually twist and wear away in the metal swing arm and droop. That might be the cause of your uncouplings, it puts too much slop in your coupling. It's a nice feature Bachman, but it just doesn't hold up.

Someone will have to fill me in as I do not have a trailer varient, however we're forgetting about someone else on the engine crew: the Conductor. In general, it would be preferred that the Bug be turned, yes. If you're modelling a major road it's probably paramount, even if it invoes you skycraning it in lieu of. However, Doodlebugs did come with a reverse, and some DBs or Trailers had windows in their bulkheads, not neccesarily for the engineer, but for the COnductor, who, armed with a brake hose (and the requiaite dump valve and the peep-whistle that makes Thomas sound manly) and a steam cord, could communicate with the engineer running blind. I've seen a few demoted cars that had shop crews cut windwos into them, as well.

It's not an ideal way to run, but to say they HAVE to bw turned? No, they do not.

EDIT: I didn't realize how little there was between engine and engineer (nothing) when I said that, so probasbly, the cab guy is groping backwards for signs and hoping the Conductor is learing the roads well enough on his own...

I'm no expert, but "Reading" wouldn't be centered on that brifdge unless it goes another two or three panels to the left edge of the picture. And every named bridge I've seen, the name has been centered on the bridge.

Quote from: Pacific Northern on May 13, 2010, 10:17:40 PM
Seeing that Bachmann imported the SY 2-8-2 as a Spectrum model to the US I would assume that if there is a strong demand for this item it would be imported.

There is the option of buying it from the Chinese vendor who advertised in on e-bay.

right, excpet for the cheinese marking on the car. I could strip them myself, but...

On people wanting to bash the Funeral Car:

If you not a stickler for detail, start with a Roundhouse/MDC Overland coach in CP or some kind of Tuscan type color. Remove the roof, and build a new one. The Funeral car had a wedding cake clerastory, so all you have to do is throw a piece of styrene on top, drop a second thicker piece on top, and then another of the first one, and you have a new roof.

Remove the underbody detail, and then take a second set of Roundhouse trucks, and with a piece o styrene leftover from the roof, build a tounge that is plastic bonded to the inside truck, and either
   1) tot he second truck, with a center crew into the floor
   2) g the easy route, and allow the inside truck to simply swivel around the plastic molded top disk of the regualr roundhose truck. You might need a strike plat on the bottom of the coach for this though, but it's much easier than trying to do a whole new hole setup.

String bunting along the top and bottom of the windows. I spraypainted tissue, but the black pantyhose will do too. WHen you mount it, I reccomend plastic weld or supergling to a strip of stryrene, small enough to not show, but provde some rigidity. It also covers the pre-applied road name quite nicel,y without having to strip the whole car down.

Lastly, place the presidential eagle, or a representation thereof, over the car number with cardstock.

The finished model will look something liek this:
The whole car ends up about 3 windows too long. I dun care that much, I alwyas favored effect. You can kinda see the swing arm poking out in the second pic.

Personally, yes I think 68 is a bit much for that car. But then, I don't have one. And actually, the one pictured went to a friend as a gift.

It has come to awreness in the MRR forums, of the existance of a Bachmann Spectrum China Schnabel Car. (As in, made for and sold by the Chian division of Bachmann) Currently, there is one nice, flexible, but somewhat lengthy kit available in the US, and proabably room for an RTR. I know of three in the MRRs that would get one.

The mold's been done by a factory, so that part of thelegwork is clear. What say you guys?

Quote from: Atlantic Central on March 08, 2010, 10:06:46 PM
Flashwave,

No offense, but it sounds like you're in over your head with this whole thing.

Send me all the parts and $100 and I will build you a perfect running GW.

Did it ever occure to you to just buy another C&O Mountian, put the GW parts on it, put the remaining parts on the bad loco and send it to Bachmann?

No matter what they sent you back, you would have had your GW and could have sold the other one on Ebay when it cam back.

Sheldon

I am quite possibly a tad far out from shore, but then, it's all semi-basic stuff, that would be nice to know. I don't see myslef scratchbuilding a steam loco, but repairing, yes.  The issues themselves aren't all that complicated, it's been a fun leanring experience. And, I'd like to keep learning, as long as it is fun. I quite enjoyed trying and playing with the Worm, and learning somewhat how all the wiring runs and goes. Most of the GW parts are either paint/applied graphics, such as the piston cases, or small detail parts that I'm afraid would break off, I much rather just switch shells. And we're out of C&O variants, or I wouldn't have had to break into it as much as I did.

Just to get the before out of the way, I'd like to try to fix this myself, I think it's something I did and can undo, but I'm new to steam repair and would like some tips. Also, I've done enough damage to the engine trying to send in the drive and save the shell (C&O George Washington)

A bit less than Two years ago, it's taken me that logn to get on this puppy) I discovered the GWs were wired backswards for DCC=a nice rendition of a cylinder blowdown, coming from the tender. Sent in drive after >4 monthsof busy, and between the time the GW was in DC and my laziness, Bachmann was fresh out of GW locos, or C&O Mountains in general. Instead, I got a lovely DCC/Sound N&W version (kudos Bachmann, for the bonus) that I was told I could keep the leftovers. Had to move the headlight down for the Dirty face C&O mount, (in the process lost the headlight, now drilling out the N&W headlight to accept the bulb) and to do that, I had to split the weight to flex the wires into the old C&O slot. Put the weight back together, swapped piston cases (lost one of the side drive-rod arms, the smaller one, gonna find a junker steamer to patch with...) and reassembled engine. Worm gear not connecting with drivers at all. Resettle shell and weight, get them to meet, but eith some minor clicking, mostly in reverse. Two weeks later from that, I had the shell loose, as the rear screw that holds the shell and the drawbar stripped, and now the engine clicks and skips/skids from momentum every few inches. I'm not sure what's loose, the weight and drivers were never loosened, and the wheels are tight, I can't free-spin them. I'm open for suggestions on where or how to troubleshoot.