Quote from: wfletcher on October 08, 2023, 12:04:14 PMI am using ez-track.
I have all 3 radius 48" and down.
They derail straight and curved; no higher incidence for either.
I have 2-8-2 DCC steam and a Penns diesel 4x4.
the 2-8-2 only runs on the 48" radius.
These have been set up since last year.  Last year I had to de-railing what so ever.  The only difference is I cleaned it and did not press heavily to bend rail joiners.  All joiners are on and straight.  No track is bent nor rising.  Everything is flat.

By 48" I am assuming you are measuring diameter to the outer edge of the roadbed?  The traditional method of measuring curve radius is from the center between the rails across the circle to the other side. Center to center. Divide that number by half to get your radius. In this case, I would assume that 48" would actually be 22" radius. Bachmann does not make a 48" radius track in HO. I don't think anybody does. Please don't take what I said there the wrong way. I am only trying to explain how things work so you'll have a better understanding of what you have.

Given that you mentioned "all 3 radii" when Bachmann makes 7 different radii of curves, I am going to assume you mean the most commonly used ones:15", 18" and 22". Of those three, the 15" is the most problematic. Alot of locomotives don't like curves that sharp, and I advise trying to avoid them. I suspect your 2-8-2 has a problem with that radius. as a matter of fact, the entry in the Bachmann catalog specifically states "Performs best on 18" radius curves or greater." Keeping it to the wider radius curves should improve its performance.

As for the PRR diesel, you really didn't tell me anything about it. IS it an F7? a GP40? a GP35? Or something else. Bachmann has made many different diesel locomotives in Pennsylvania rarilroad paint, and most of them were the 4 axle locomotives I assume you are referring to. These come in various lengths from about 4 inches to about 7 inches. This also affects their ability to run on those 15" radius curves, with the shorter ones doing much better than the longer ones.

This is why I personally advise against the use of those curves. The operational problems you are likely to run into are not work the extra track you can squeeze into your space.

Moving on, there are some problems to look for. Do you have an NMRA standards guage? This tool will tell you if your track or wheels are out of guage. wheels or rails that are spread too wide or too narrow will cause ALOY of problems.

Since you said your locomotives appear to be derailing at random, I'm going to assume it probably has something to do with either a wheelset being out of guage, or on the diesel something interfering with the movement of one or more of the trucks. I am guessing here because, you didn't answer the questions I originally posed, as I had asked them. Your answers would have dona alot to point me in the direction of your problem. Bachmann diesels are unique in the way the trucks are mounted. They have a pivot point above the worm gear, on top of the truck assembly. The ability to pivot can be adjusted by turning a screw that holds the truck to the chassis, and serves as the pivot point. If the screw is too tight, the truck cannot pivot the way it needs to and it will derail. Find this screw, and loosen it a quarter turn or so. If it was too tight, this should solve the problem. If it wasn't too tight, loosening it a little shouldn't degrade performance further. In other words you have nothing to lose by trying.

WHich specific engines are derailing? DO they derail going forward, backward, or both? Are they derailing on curved track or straight track? What radius is your curved track, specifically where they derail?

I stnad corrected re: AC motors on Dc. The Ac motors I studied in school were controlled by varying the AC frequency rather than the voltage the way you would a DC motor. Len, what effect does varying the DC voltage have on an AC motor?

I agree with Trainman here. I purposely originally built my layout with 48" legs years ago. Standing to run it gets old, though getting underneath to do wiring was much easier. When I moved a couple of years ago and set it up again I replaced the legs with 36: ones but it's still too high for my wheelchair bound wife to see.

By contrast, the layout I helped my dad build was about 36" and when you work the yards you can be seated. My grandfather's old layout was even lower, with 30" legs. It was a pleasure to sit and run trains, and you could easily reach into the interior of the layout to work on it, but you has to use a mechanic's creeper to work on the underside. Keep in mind that, like Ken's beautiful layout, these were mountain railroads and even a 30" height meant the lowest tracks were 32-33" and the tops of the mountains were over 4 feet above the floor.

One of the little known things I find fascinating about the Promentory area is that there was no meeting point originally specified for the two railroads, and the surveyors and graders built right past each other for miles before the government specified Promentory as the meeting point. After the railroad was completed, Union Pacific gave up the trackage from Promentory east to Ogden to CP and the actual interchange between the two railroads remained there up until UP bought SP in the 1990s. The never used roadbeds parallel the abandoned transcontinental railroad for miles.

Utah is a fascinating state for railroad history, and you can read about most of it at the exceptionally well researched website Utah Rails. https://utahrails.net/

I am not an O guager, so others will be able to provide more insight.


In answer to Question 3 anything with 3 rails is AC not DC. this distinction is very important. AC and DC motors are not compatable, and the use of a DC controller to power an AC locomotive will probably damage the motor. I know for a fact that AC will cause damage to a DC motor.

Another thing to understand with 3 rail is that unlike 2 rail track where the rails are opposite polarities and must be insulated from each other, the outer rails of 3 rail do not have to be insulated from each other, and in the case of older tubular track they may not be. But the center rail must be insulated from the outer two to prevent a short circuit. SInce you are buying secondhand track cheap from antique shops and flea markets, you should invest in a cheap multimeter that you can find in any auto parts or hardware store. Use the ohms setting to make sure that the center rail is insulated from the others on every piece of track you buy BEFORE you use them.

I have seen WIlliams locomotives operating at train shows on the same layouts as Lionel, so I assume they are compatable. But like I said, I am not an O guager, and much more knowledgable about DC two rail trains than 3 rail AC. Others should be better able to answer your other questions.

Well said, YardMaster.

My personal take on it. I use the term controller rather than power pack because that's what it is. Lionel's controllers were ttrasnformers because that;s what they did, step down AC house power to voltages suitable for running trains. To me power packs were the all in one units from the 60s and 70s that put out DC for running trains, along with AC and possibly DC constant voltage terminals for accessories. Yes it still contained a transformer, but it also had a rectifier to convert AC to DC, along with circuitry to vary the DC voltage powering the trains. The Modern controller has a seperate transformer/rectifier unit (wall wart) that plugs into the unit whose main purpose is controlling the trains, Thus, controller.

You could actually double up the locomotives and run them together. I did it all the time when my layout was DC. But if you want to run them seperate, and control them independently, you need another controller. You'd either have to have them running on seperate loops of track, or use block control where your track is divided into electrically isolated sections that can be run by either controller.

HO scale? It looks like this is a DC locomotive so any DC controller should run it.

Both cabs will operate independently of each other. One cab is not affected by the other cab's polarity.

I tend to agree with Trainman. I wouldn't have expended the effort because I know a pancake motored unit will never measure up to the performance of my dozen or so newer Bachmann GP40s.

But for somebody just getting back into the hobby, this locomotive provided a very good learning experience. You learned alot about how to approach troubleshooting your layout, and this process can be applied to many situations you will run into in this hobby.

If you'd like to see how much better designed the newer locomotives are, look for the Bachmann locomotives in the blue boxes. You can find these pretty cheap on Ebay or at a train show. They are one of the true bargains in this hobby. That's why I have so many of them.

In the meantime, connect that wire and have fun with what you have.

Quote from: trainman203 on September 16, 2023, 06:47:23 PMExcept in New Orleans

I can find no records or photos of PCC cars operating in New Orleans. Most PCC cars, including the Bachmann model, are single ended cars. What New Orleans has is something completely different.

Terry,

Am I correct in assuming that your booster remains connected to the track at all times? If so, that could be the problem. The DC controller and the booster should not be connected to the track at the same time.

Regarding the problems Trainman has encountered: the solution is to use battery powered locomotives that do not need electrical contact through the rails. This is also known as DeadRail. I don't have experience in the large scale trains I'm assuming you'd want to use for an outdoor railroad, but I know others have used DeadRail successfully in this application. You can probably buy locomotives already set up to run this way, through a hand held controller similar to those used for RC cars, boats and planes.