I thought about that, and the reason for that might be because those products were released in Summer 2015, which is a very short gap after they appeared in CGI, which was Fall 2014. It's possible they were already being designed by the time the CGI versions were created for the show.

The signal box Bachmann made, interestingly, has never appeared in CGI at all.

For Maithwaite and Brendam Warehouse (as they were both made long after their CGI versions were created), it's hard for me to tell, but I don't have as keen of an eye for the building props.

I imagine Dryaw would be based off the CGI render, as that would be the most clear reference material Mattel could provide to Bachmann. General rule of thumb is "If it has a CGI render, Bachmann (and any toy company making any Thomas product) will use it as a reference." (Skarloey and Rheneas are kind of odd cases, in that regard, where their CGI design and real-life counterpart are so close that using the real-life locomotives for reference didn't matter to Mattel)

Thanks for the strong feedback everyone.

Yes, the post was made to mainly focus on HO/OO engines. I feel like OO9 is a much more nerfed version of roughly the same topic, where Sir Handel, Peter Sam, and Duncan should be prioritized over Victor, Luke and Millie, with Duke in the same limbo that BoCo is in. Stepney would almost be there himself, had not Hornby proven his market value on more than one occasion.

So far the general consensus from people who want Stepney seems to be "do it before he gets a CGI render," which says a lot about what people who buy Bachmann products feel about the CGI renders, with Daisy being that odd anomaly.

Definitely agree that Bachmann has missed the chance to make Sidney for awhile. They've milked the 08 tooling too much now, and to do it a third time would just lead to more frustration and discontent.

I can see Stanley happening... Sometime? Maybe? I don't know? I feel like that's another engine Bachmann has waited too long to jump into making. His prime has passed, and even then, it was short (being only in TGR and Season 12, with only minor speaking roles after that). I think him and Charlie are roughly equals in terms of likelihood of being made by Bachmann. Charlies far past the point when they were featuring him in episodes the most as well. Either way, while I feel they are very low on the totem pole, they're higher than the likes of Scurff, Stafford, Norman, etc.

Some interesting points there; I've covered a lot in my separate thread (at http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,34694.0.html ) that specifies on Daisy, Stepney, Hiro, Rebecca, and Nias likelihood, so I'll be making this brief.

Sidney, Splatter and Dodge, as well as The Great Railway Show 08s I feel like are all under the same tier of "Filler to milk the 08 tooling." They don't have a particular strong or weak chance of coming into the range in the near future, but are definitely options that can stand idle should they ever feel the need to pad the range out a bit.

On that note, I feel like that's why I'd sooner see any of those over the likes of Norman and Stanley. Normal has about the same rankings and reasons to be made as Sidney or other minor engines, but has the added disadvantage of requiring a new tooling that they can't milk for such a small character.

Stanley, meanwhile, I feel like is an "artifact" request I see in a lot of wishlists, harking back to when he was new. It seemed like they were going to do something big with Stanley in the brand, but never did. Over time, I feel like his likelihood of having a model has basically diminished to a low tier.

It's good to see more unified people in favor of Stepney of course. I feel like if there's a time to push for him, it's now. I'd prioritize him over Daisy, personally. Though it perplexes me a bit how you are quite harsh on Daisy, yet quite generous on engines like Charlie, Den and Dart, engines who I think have far less of a chance, despite their designs (some of who are far more complex) and sizes. They do have points in favor of them on the assembly line and standing out in a line-up color/design wise, but I feel like they lack the "oomph" of crowd reception that some characters do. Anyway, back to Daisy...

I think her amount of windows is more or less a moot point (in regard to accuracy), when fans want the character they see in the show, not real life-accurate models. I don't think people had much of an issue when engines like Rosie or Duck don't look like their real counterparts. The Bachmann engines have yet to have clear windows on any of their engines, so I'd fully expect her (and personally wouldn't mind or care) if she had white windows, since it makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint. Her length as a result of less windows does lead to that interesting point though, which is why I'd put Daisy on the ranks of "If Bachmann has enough resources to make a large engine, do Daisy first, then Hiro, before even considering Rebecca" as per the Future Engines thread. Basically, if the option is there to make a big engine, do Daisy first. The fact that her CGI model is shorter does help her length a bit, too. Time will tell.

Personally, I'd pay the extra bucks for classic character representation.

BoCo is definitely a long-gone possibility, and why I never brought him up. I never brought up Diesel 10 and Harvey for size reasons, as they simply don't comply with the NRMA regulations. I've heard people say "well maybe Bachmann doesn't need to follow them then, they're just Thomas trains" which... I guess they have no idea what a regulation means.

I think the "vocal minority" is bigger than people believe it to be as well. For a long time (years I recall) Duck was on their top 10 sellers list in the Thomas section, and is only gone because Oliver now occupies the spot. For awhile Skarloey was there too (To add, Skarloey has sold out more than once, largely in thanks to a niche market in the UK who imports his model over for OO9 modellers. Skarloey was definitely a helping hand in the growing movement towards RTR OO9 locomotives. I haven't looked much into Rheneas' sales yet, but I imagine he's getting a similar treatment. Rosie on the other hand, isn't on the same Best Sellers list. Makes me wonder if she's at a close 11, or lurking further behind.

Most "normal and casual" parents buying Bachmann trains for their child usually go for the Thomas set, some freight cars, maybe Percy and James, and often stop there. Sometimes you might see a random character thrown into the mix, but in general, the larger catalogue of engines seems to largely be based on older collectors. There's actually some amusing reviews on Amazon from people who buy the Bachmann Thomas engines and sets and have no idea how to handle model trains properly and will instead suggest ranges like Wooden Railway or Trackmaster.

I definitely believe there is a way to balance the younger audience with the collector audience, and Bachmann over the years has proven that they can handle it very well. While 2018 may be considered a flub by many, I have hopes for the future (knock on wood).

With how critical people are getting of Mattel as a brand, especially in the dawn of BWBA, I feel like Mattels safe-bet is to let Bachmann do what they do best and have been doing for years, rather than try to intervene for the sake of pushing their current agenda. This is already turning out very badly for one of the toy ranges.

The downside with the track width for Callans footbridge is the same issue that will plague if and how they design the Signal Gantry: Bachmann tends to make track width based accessories (see: Tidmouth Sheds and Knapford Station) with EZ Track in mind, rather than normal OO gauge track. I personally feel this has led to the products to look not as accurate as they could be, but from a marketing sense, it's understandable why they make the buildings being sold in America be catered to the EZ track system being sold by Bachmann in the same market.

These are all very interesting choices. One thing I was wanting to bring up in the future was the importance of whether buildings need to be resin or plastic. Resin buildings do look much better and much more accurate, but they are also more expensive to make and sell. I think if the smaller accessories like the water tower were made of plastic, it would be fine, but I feel like bigger buildings like stations, sheds, and warehouses come out looking better visually when they're made with resin.

It's a shame that it seems Bachmann has narrowed down on resin buildings, but I would still like to see a few more made. It makes me wonder if the initial resin buildings didn't sell well, hence the lack of a third round.

Sheds:
We definitely could use a narrow gauge shed. I'd agree that any narrow gauge shed would be acceptable, but my personal preference would be the ones from Season 4:


Castle:
I'll echo the ruined castle as well. Those are a classic icon of Thomas imagery, and representation in the range would be highly welcome. While there are many ruined castles you can buy from any store, the Thomas ones always had a unique design that resonated with my mind.

Retaining Wall:
I like the idea of a retaining wall; I think if they wanted to go for something that has a distinctly "Thomas" design, they should make the retaining walls seen throughout the early seasons:

The show practically already designed the product here! You can see where it cuts off after 4 arches. Customers could thus be allowed to decide how many segments they want their wall to extend by buying more segments as they wish. I also always liked how this particular wall segment had a roof-like piece to it, making it even taller, and adding to that uniquely Thomas "look." (most likely to hide parts of the sets back then).

Stations:
Ffarquhuar Station also seems like a no-brainer. It's the most iconic station in the show next to Knapford, having been on the introduction seen on nearly every VHS and many DVDs.

I'm more surprised you didn't mention Dryaw Station instead of Callan Station; Dryaw would have a higher chance, since it has appeared in CGI in many episodes lately. Bachmann also already made the Nissen shed, as well as Harold who would go nicely next to Dryaw. This would also give Bachmann a chance to make a footbridge and additional platforms, in a similar vein that Hornby did their own Dryaw. The Round water tower is also at the back of Dryaw, so it'd be yet another item already in the Thomas range that could tie it all together.


The Signal Gantry:
I've made many posts before about the Signal Gantry, and I'd agree it belongs in the range as well. I wrote about it in greater detail in a previous post:

Quote from: Sparks on October 21, 2017, 02:35:13 AM
I would like to see the Signal Gantry Junction personally:


In CGI, it has a four track and a three track variation. The difference is how many arches/poles it has:



Both versions appear in various scenes up to Season 21. Personally, I prefer the four track variation, where it only has two passage ways (as per the model picture), as it has been around in that form since the Classic Series. The 3 passage way version was introduced in Season 17.

I think overall... A narrow gauge shed, a ruined castle, Ffarquhaur or Dryaw, and a signal gantry ties in to a nice 4-6 or so products to focus on for a future year. That's where I'll stop for now, until I get more ideas.

I almost put this in the 2019 thread, but I felt like the thread is growing to the point where it'd be lost in the thread. Anyway...

While there has been plenty of discussion lately in terms of what engine Bachmann should do in 2019, I don't think there's been a very detailed analysis on multiple options, their advantages and disadvantages over others, etc. So I felt I'd make a thread based on these thoughts. Now, these thoughts can extend to a Bachmann 2020 announcement as well, as sometimes it can take over a year to develop product.

To begin, Bachmanns 2018 announcements left a lot of fans disappointed. While there can be a number of factors going on internally to have led to the 2018 announcements, be they economical decisions, bigger announcements in the pipework but not ready to be announced, or other circumstances, we either way ended up with a much smaller set of announcements this year for Thomas. I think that's also why there's been such a burst of 2019 predictions and hopes lately, as said 2018 announcements left such a sour taste in a lot of fans. So, what -are- the viable, expected options fans are hoping for? Lets have a look.

I'll start with HO/OO engines:

For most of 2017, fans were hoping for Daisy the Diesel Railcar.

Lets look at some of the reasons fans have been rooting for her to be in the range:

• She's one of two engines fans have been rooting for that is from the Railway Series, as well as the model era TV series. While she wasn't used much in the model series, Daisy become a writers-favorite in the recent CGI episodes, where she's starred in seven episodes, and made cameos in others. To say she's familiar to older audiences and younger audiences a like is a bit of an understatement at this point.
• Daisy is a character who started in the books and show with next to nothing, and has been turned into a fan-favorite whose firing at her full storytelling potential in both humorous and yet good-valued stories, making her one of the best-written female characters on the show. This mainly reinforces the idea that she is a popular character in the show, and thus would have plenty of eager customers to buy her model.
• She has a very simple box shape that would be about as difficult as any other Bo-Bo diesel locomotive, with the addition of the usual Thomas eye mechanism internally. With a full body, she has plenty of room for said eye mechanism, as well as extra weight to make her body heavier.
• Daisy also has another, minor perk: With Oliver, fans were very divided on the way his CGI model looked in the show, compared to his model appearance, which led to disagreements over the Bachmann model when they used his CGI model. Daisy on the other hand, is generally agreed that her CGI model is a vast improvement over her model body. Her buffers no longer nearly reach the ground, making her look properly closer to her prototype. Her face is also now more unique, rather than looking like "BoCo in make-up."

So, what if there's some reason Daisy ends up being a nonviable option? Well, there has been the Option B fans have been clamoring for lately, Stepney the Bluebell Engine:

At first, Stepney seems to be a bit off a choice to be suddenly bringing up, but recent discussions have brought up many points in his favor:

• Stepney is a fan-favorite engine, who like Daisy, has his origins in the Railway Series, and Model Series, with no current CGI appearance. To many fans, Stepney is now considered a character that fortunately has yet to be "tainted." He's gone, but far from forgotten.
• Stepney has a unique color that would make him stand out in the crowd of Bachmann Thomas engines.
• Stepney is a proven seller. How? Hornby made Stepney many years ago, and due to his unique color, as well as general popularity of his basis (the A1 Terrier), has been a hot seller. The Hornby Stepney was so popular that he was given another production run in 2012 after years of being discontinued.
• British Thomas fans importing the Bachmann models to the UK is very common nowadays through online vendors, despite Bachmann themselves not selling the range in the UK. They would be ecstatic to have a Stepney model back on the market.
• As mentioned before, Stepney has not had a CGI appearance yet, and he's the last engine from the model era that has a fair chance of being considered for a Bachmann model. If Bachmann made a model of Stepney, he'd be praised as a "final hurrah" and tribute to the model era, which so many of Bachmanns older fans (aka the ones with wallets) grew up with and have nostalgia for.
• Stepney is a small tank engine who would not need a large amount of resources. Bachmann already made Oliver before with a small body, so making Stepney should prove to be an easy task for them.

I honestly think at this point, Stepney would not be any sort of financial risk. If anything, I believe making Stepney would be a good financial choice, but also a good PR choice to regain trust and faith in the Bachmann Thomas fans to those who feel underwhelmed by the 2018 announcements.

Now lets address the elephants in the room: Rebecca and Nia.

These are two new engines Mattel has brought in the show to take Henry and Edwards place in the franchise, as a way to add diversity and a more even gender balance. The problem fans have been having with this is these are two new, unproven characters that the fans as-of-yet have no reason to like. The show already had engines like Rosie and Ashima for diverse gender equality, but were instead "shunted" to the side for new, marketable faces.

Their debut movie, Big World, Big Adventures will not even be out until the fall, but fans have become quickly concerned by the aggressive manner they are being marketed into merchandise as news as the next "hip, hop and modern" Thomas engines. This already should tell Bachmann that there is not a market currently for these two engines, and even if there's the odd chance of it being there, said market is uncertain and unstable. It'd be an awkward gamble that I feel like the resources could be better spent on engines that are certain to sell.

Among the two engines, Nia (the orange engine) has the "stronger" chance. She's a tank engine, but she does have a large argument against her.

• She's a large tank engine, so more resources would be required to make her.
• She has a lot of details, as well as a complicated paintwork that would make even Stepney blush.
• Her side rods are quite complex, far more so than even Rosie, or any other engine brought into the range in the last few years

To add...

• Model trains are a hobby that's practically -founded- on nostalgia and childhood wonder (just take note how a lot of people will model rail lines that are close to their home, or ones they grew up nearby and saw a lot). Nia (and Rebecca) don't fit this label at all; she's purely an instrument of marketing, and the fans have been smelling this a mile away. Whether she'll end up well-written in due time has yet to be told, but as it stands, she's not exactly a hot topic right now.

Some might point fingers to Paxton, but even Paxton wasn't conceived in such a way. He was meant to be background filler for one DVD special, but through the writing crew guided by Andrew Brenner, gave him a unique personality that made a new character have a lovable personality that felt.. well, Awdry-esque. Paxton felt like a character that would've came right out the Railway Series, and that's what won fans hearts. Paxton also skirted by fairly easy despite being a CGI character, as he's a repaint of the Diesel tooling.

Rosie, I feel like won her way into the range due to her unique color, and popularity for being an established female character whose representation in the range was deserved through perseverance.

Meanwhile, I feel like Rebecca (the yellow engine) can be almost instantly ruled out.

• She's a large tender engine, who we have not seen an engine of her size in the range since Spencer, who was made about 10 or so years ago.

If it came to the point where Bachmann wanted to and could make a large tender engine, let me use this as a way to segway into the third engine I think -does- have a chance, Hiro the Japanese Engine:


The possibility of Hiro relies entirely on Bachmann considering Rebecca, keep in mind. What does Hiro have over Rebecca? Well, a lot actually.

• Hiro is a diverse engine, he'd be the first engine in the Bachmann range that would appeal to a minority.
• Nia is African, but she is still a newcomer to the franchise. Hiro meanwhile, has been in the franchise for years, is well-established into Sodor, and is one of the few CGI characters that older fans like, in a similar vein to Paxton.
• On that note, fans like Hiro because his character sticks very well to the foundations of the franchise. He's all about saving old engines from scrap, and making them into new engines. His character embodies old wisdom as well as preservation of the past, and protection and respect of ones elders.
• He's based off the Japanse D51, which is one of the most iconic locomotives in Japan, a country that is another strong importer of the Bachmann Thomas range, and way more numerous in population than the UK.
• Japan also has a strong connection to trains in their culture. Thomas & Friends has a unique style that clicked very well with Japanese audiences, and was such a strong-selling brand in Japan that they have been getting special, exclusive merchandise there since its arrival in the 90s, and continues to this day.

So if Bachmann is willing to do a large tender engine, why not pick one with a certified, well received history in the franchise, -and- one that can check off the diversity card in a positive way? If you go big Bachmann, go Hiro.

So, that covers the three main engines that have been on my mind lately. Now, there's many, many more engines Bachmann could be making, but lets address them for a second, and why I think they should be skipped.

These general points can pretty much be applied to all of these characters: Charlie, Stafford, Scruff, Stanley, Phillip, Sidney, Norman, Den, Dart, Porter, Timothy, Ryan, Gator, Marion, Hurricane, Frankie and Whiff, among others I may have forgotten.

• These are all minor characters who have had varying levels of being well received, but have not made the big impact that characters like Hiro and Paxton did
• With all of these characters debuting in the late model era or CGI episodes, they don't have a strong nostalgia factor going for them just yet
• They have fun designs and prototypes, true, but that alone isn't going to sell a model (as much as I'd like an RTR model of Norman and Hurricanes basis)

To put it simple, they are characters who have their fans, but not enough to where I'd say they would be a hot seller. I'd say skip any of these engines for the next few years, and don't even give them a second thought for the time being.

Anyway, those are my main thoughts for now in terms of what engines Bachmann can make for the future. Let me know what you guys think. One idea I've had is starting up a survey and having it spread around on social media to help gain momentum in favor of engines like Stepney and Daisy. I think all of this is worthy of a topic in its own right.

Another point I thought of earlier today is if Bachmann made Stepney now, then he would be one of the final classic engines who would have his Bachmann model based on a model era appearance, due to him (currently) not having a CGI render. Any other classic character viable to have a Bachmann model most likely has a CGI model made already (like Daisy). Stepney would truly be the "last hurrah" by Bachmann to the model era characters.

I'm not sure about the show, but one of the Island of Sodor books Awdry wrote states the island has about 80 engines. It's up for debate if that includes engines that have came and went, or current stock. The Railway Series overall only has a bit over 50 engines mentioned.

Now that's a refreshing sight to see. I know if I ever end up getting G scale items, the Spiteful Brake Van will be one of the first pieces of rolling stock I get. 

That's a good point; we can rule out Rebecca by default, being a large tender engine and all. Hiro would have a better chance than she does. Nia has a lot of much more competition from more viable small engines like Daisy and Stepney from the classic series, as well as Sidney, Philip or other side characters from the CGI episodes.

The "userbase" is the one buying the engines and rolling stock, most of the time. Normal parents usually buy the bare bones stuff like Thomas, the Fun With Freight set, Christmas set, Percy, James, etc. It's the more niche fanbase that is buying characters like Duck, Donald, Douglas, Rosie, etc.

The problem with Rebecca and Nia is their special hasn't even come out yet, and by 2019, it will have only been out for 5 months (if it has a September release date). Mattel may be trying to push them hard in the media and merchandise ranges like Wood and Trackmaster, but Bachmann rarely gives in to trends like that.

Emily and Spencer came to the range in 2007 and 2006 respectively, which was 3-4 years after their debut episodes. Rosie came into the Bachmann range 10 years after her debut episode. Paxton debuted in 2011 in Day of the Diesels, but didn't become a fan favorite until his role in Blue Mountain Mystery in 2012, with Bachmann making a model of him 5 years later.

We had a discussion similar to this recently at http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,34031.0.html and the general agreement seems to be nobody wants these engines to come out for a long time.

Bachmann and Mattel should not even be considering the two chracters for the range. Their popularity and reception is unproven, and to make them anytime soon would be nothing short of jumping the gun.

Right now interest seems to be focused on rooting for Daisy, and more recently, reviving Stepney as a possible plan B.

It makes me wonder how early or late Bachmann decides to make their engine for 2019 before announcing things at the next Toy Fair. Might be worth asking Doug to give us a good idea of what the "time limit" is in that regard. Otherwise, we spend all year pushing for an item thats feedback wouldn't be processed for another two years.

It sounds like we have a potential hot-topic engine to root for the next year, as well as Daisy. Gives Bachmann a good alternative of choices if Mattel doesn't want to do Daisy. Both Stepney and Daisy would be a good way to regain the faith of the older Thomas fans in the range, specially those who import the models to the UK and hold the old characters dearer than Americans do.

I think beyond those two, any other choices for future engines are non-Awdry characters, who all have roughly the same potential level like Hiro, Stanley, Sidney, etc. who don't particularly have any advantages or disadvantages over the other.