Aint it about time

[hminky]

No one really wants a small compact little sucker.

No, unfortunately, I think most On30 modelers prefer equipment to pull 10 foot boxcars around 15 inch radius curves.

I'm not sure about most, but the most vocal ones sure do... 

Yeah, too bad, On30 could be so much better.

Harold

[Hamish K]

No one really wants a small compact little sucker.

I'm holding out for a sub-$200 (street price) On30 K27/K28 from Bachmann, but I doubt we ever get one.

I am not sure if this was intended seriously, but it points out the difficulty. Currently the major on line discount stores are selling non-sound Bachmann ON30 locos such as the 2-8-0, Forney, Climax, Shay and 4-4-0 from around  $190 upwards, often over $200.  A considerably larger loco for the same price? Then there is the question of curves. Like it or not many existing ON30ers have tight curves. If a loco can not cope with them, sales will be less. Smaller volume equals higher price. Thus I fail to see how Bachmann could produce a large 3 foot prototype loco for similar prices to their current range. Note that the large Scale 2-8-2 is selling for considerable more than other Large Scale Spectrum locomotives.

Bachmann could produce a large 3 foot gauge prototype if they wished. But the price would be higher, probably getting into MMI territory. Would people buy Bachmann at those prices? This would apply to any large prototype.

Hamish

[glennk28]

Since the MMI locos are being built in Asia, I douibt that Bachmann could do them for much less--street price seems to be the mid $400's.   gj

[heintz]

Rather see a Sound  4-4-0. I am not buying one till they are sound.

[Tomcat]

Actually I would love to see something "Colorado Style", why not a K-27? The G-Model does sell pretty well if I see it right, and I´m sure Bachmann could do cheaper than MMI, even they could do a better running model, or - why not bulding something which could fít on the Connie frame and wheelsets?

Could result in a C-21, why not?

Whatever - I could imagine there is even a much bigger Market for a K-27 out there which could not get covered totally by MMI. A brilliant Bachmann Engine would make her way, that´s for sure. If she´s slightly a bit cheaper than a MMI, there you go Bach-man.
Take your chance. You can do better than MMI!

Tom

...or what about a Logging Mallet, or a Heisler (no-I´m not going to...) or a Three Truck Shay or Climax...?

[Dusten Barefoot]

Na, I think a good Eastern style ET&WNC 4-6-0 would fit the bill, there is already too much colorodo stuff.

[Mister Lee]

As much as I'd like to see a nice little 4-6-0 either based on the Tweetsie's 4-6-0 or something Baldwin built for one of the western roads, I fear that I have to concurr with Hamish; I doubt that a ET&WNC 4-6-0 would sell all that well. Most of us do have small spaces and tight curves and even On30 ten wheelers need a lot of room. Bachmann would do better to put out something like one of the US Army's World War One tank engines.

However, if Bachmann did make a Tweetsie-style 4-6-0, I'd buy one or more. I am interested in Latin American narrow gauge; I'm told by an authority on Cuban sugar cane railroads that Baldwin did rap out several copies of the ET&WNC design for one or more Cuban sugar cane railroads and that they ran early into the 1990's. (They've since been scrapped, drat it!).

This isn't the forum for it, but I think that someone ought to make On30 boiler, cab, and tender conversion kits to fit something like the Mantua "Petticoat Junction" ten-wheelers or the Bowser G-5s.

[Royce Wilson]

While my alltime favorite locomotive,a Mason Bogie is probably not everyone elses. I would have to agree with Hamish on the little tank engine.
what I think probably does not matter a hill of beans to other folks , but I sure could use a little tank engine fer my minning operations.
I am strickly steam,the shay is too big,the Porter too small soo that 2-6-2-t would fit the bill just right. you ain't gotta model sugarcane to need a small engine.

                                                                  Royce Wilson

[Dusten Barefoot]

Im pretty sure there will by buyers for the engine, they may not be On30 modelers, but they will wbuy it anyway due to the ET&WNC on her if it is ET&WNC. Well then how come the 2-8-0 is a seller, she is not recomanded to go around a curve more than 18" radious, and yet she sells? So I am sure if Bachmann were to ever produce a 4-6-0 it would sell.
Dusten

[japasha]

Dustin,

It would be better to have the western 4-6-0. While many On30 people like sharp cures and ridiculously small rolling stock, most 30 inch roads, including the Mexican and Cuban used 25 to 30 foot rolling stock unless a cane or field operation.

22 inch radius is pretty darn tight.  I have an MMI K27 and it runs fairly well, but it needs closer to 36 inch radius to look somewhat normal. Just a hint, the Silverton Northern used C-16s and had the Chattanooga curve to contend with, 270 foot radius on a 4% grade. Blind drivers helped a lot. Nothing else was ever used on that line. The sidings had to be reached by idler cars.

Before you ask for something, Learn more about what the real world was like. The Tweetsie (Which I live near) wasn't built much better than the Colorado Roads. Same problems. These were industrial railways first and anything else was gravy.

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

For what it's worth, My On30 4-6-0 is the same length as the Mogul, and it has no trouble with 18" R curves.  I think Bachmann could make a Mogul-sized 4-6-0 work on 18" R curves pretty easily.  I'm not sure how big the Tweetsie 4-6-0 is in comparison.  Isn't it the same size as the Connie, about 48' long overall?  It might be more of a challenge.

A 270' radius curve is tight in real life...  That translates to a 67.5" radius curve in 1:48.  That's pretty amazing.  Pretty much all of our On30 curves are insanely tight when compared to real railroads.

M

[glennk28]

For those who keep thinking that Bachmann could do an Onx K-27 cheaper than MMI--are you aware that the Blackstone HOn3 K-27's appear to be coming out of the same factory  as the Fn3 ones--and are close to the prices of the MMI Onx locos. They could do better with something not on the MMI schedule.  Or--something far enough distant they they could beat MMI to the market.  gj

[Dusten Barefoot]

I know the history and the purpose behind the ET&WNC, maybe not as well as others do. Western Roads and Colorodo roads are the reason for me to push this locomotive til I can see her made. If a person buys a locomotive in NG stock what do they get? A western road is what a person see's every were in a hobbie shop, online you name it. Every ng Tenderd engine so far by bachmann has been a western or forign road name design other than the 4-4-0. I think it is about time for a eastern engine with some power. If she worked so good in G she can work good in On30. Bring some Eastern Power to the line.
Dusten

[Charlie Mutschler]

Model railroad curves - almost without exception - are unprototypically tight.  This is just reality - most of us don't have a warehouse to build our railroad in, and the compromise is to force our equipment around curves typically found on industrial, logging, and street car trackage.  Dusten would like to see a 4-6-0, and there are calls for more 2-8-2s, and hopes to get around 18 or 22 inch radius curves in On30.  Lots of luck. 

For the sake of argument, let's consider the ET&WNC.  Their trackage was comparable to that in the Rocky Mountain west, which is where I have prototype data to support my points.  Presuming the ET&WNC was like most of the C&S, D&RGW, or RGS, the sharpest main line curves were generally 24 degrees - or 240' 6" radius.  (Actually main lines in Colorado included some 24.5 degree curves, but let's not split hairs).  That's about 60 inches in O scale.  Sixty inches radius equates to a 10 foot diameter circle.  Most of the On3 crowd running mikes (D&RGW or EBT, take your pick) think 44 inches is a reasonable minimum.  That, however, scales out to 176 feet radius - much, much sharper than the prototype.  Unfortunately, we all seem to be caught in that problem.  My hat is off to the model manufacturers, who have managed to design model steam locomotives which negotiate curves which are usually much to sharp for the prototype to operate on. 

Again, I think if I wanted something as large as the ET&WNC 4-6-0 in On30 / On3, I would be thinking in terms of something that could negotiate a 35 inch radius curve.  And my guess is that a good model that would appeal to the On3 as well as On30 market, would probably need something more like 40 to 44 inches.  The little 4-4-0 Bachmann offers in On30 is a beauty, and it gets around sharper curves than the large prototype for the Fn3 4-4-0.  For a typical Baldwin 18C 4-4-0 like E&P "EUREKA" wider curves are required - say 24.5 degrees.  So getting an On3 EUREKA around anything tighter than 40 inches might be a challenge. 

I think a number of people are interested in 4-6-0's, but I think the point about the large number of On30 people wanting locos that negotiate 18 inch radius curves is an issue.  Size of these locomotives makes it hard to design a good model of an ET&WNC 4-6-0 that would take such sharp curves in O scale, for all the same reasons the other manufacturer's On30 K-27 can't comfortably get down to 18 inch radius curves. 

Charlie
-30-

[Frisco]

I would really like to see RGS #20 , it would make a great model because it....... 1. Is a 4-6-0 which has been asked for ....... 2. It goes perfectly whith other all ready produced models esp. the rail truck. .........3. although I agree that 18" probaly would not even be seen on a trolley line in real life , many ON30 modlers use that radius and this locomotive would easly go around it........... 4. The proto type still exists ( soon to be running at the Colorado Railroad museum) .