N&W steam

[SteamGene]

I should have asked this question days ago.  I hope somebody can give me an answer before tomorrow morning!
What steam power would the N&W use for mine runs in 1957?  I'm subbing for an old language arts friend of mine and she's teaching ROCKET BOYS.  She wants me to do some talking about coal tipples and the railroad's role in coal mining.  If it were in the C&O region, I'd have no problem at all.  But for Coalwood, WV, I have no idea. 
Gene

[Guilford Guy]

I would guess a 2-8-0 or 4-8-0... I don't think the 0-8-0's ventured out of the yard, but they were perfected machines, lasting into 1958/59...

[VirginiaCentral]

N&W mine runs in 1957 would have been almost exclusively handled by class Y5, Y6, Y6a, & Y6b 2-8-8-2s and (ugh) diesels! The diesels began arriving in 1956 and all steam was gone by 1960.  Some of the class Z/Z1 2-6-6-2s were still around in 1957 but the older power like class G & class W 2-8-0s had been long gone and the class M/M2 4-8-0s were used in local freight and yard switching assignments.

Jerry

[Paul M.]

  I'm subbing for an old language arts friend of mine and she's teaching ROCKET BOYS.  

Oh, that's a great book... 

[DRW807]

Mostly Y6 Mallets. N&W retired the smaller steam (with the exception of the 0-8-0s) before the Y-6s, and had switched to GP9 and RS3 power for the smaller branches, adding the RS11 in the late 50s. The only steam pictures I have seen with the 1st generation diesels were those of 2-8-8-2s, and 0-8-0s in the yards in the late 50s. The Mallets were the most economical to use on the heavy coal drags.

The current issue (Spring 2008) of Classic Trains has an article on the last days of N&W steam in 1960. The 0-8-0s were actually retired, and then brought back when needed, before finally dropping their fires in 1960, according to the story.

Oops...looks like I typed too slow....

[SteamGene]

Thanks.  I'm a bit surprised that the Y6's would be used for mine runs - I did figure the earlier Y4 or Y5s might and didn't know if the Zs were still around.  I didn't think that the M class saw much coal service.  I want to give the kids an idea of the size of the locomotives - not cylinder size, of course, which would mean nothing - but the length.  Fortunately, most of them have probably seen the stuffed and mounted K4 (C&O variety, of course) and I have models of that and I can compare that to a C&O H-8, which is close in size to the Y4-6. 
Gene

[r.cprmier]

Gene;
I am no expert on the N&W by as longshot, but it would have made sense to use Y6b mallets etc. for the mine runs.  I got the idea brom looking at pics of Tony Koester's old AM layout in MR this month.  If you have that issue, you might bring it in to the class for those pictures.  I bet the kids would be pretty interested.  Good luck at the "seminar".

Rich

[ebtbob]

Gene,

       I do not know about the specific area you mentioned,  but I have two or three N&W steam books and many pix show the N&W using 2-8-8-2s to work the mines.   Obviously,  if a mine was on light rail that would not be possible and in that case I do not have any idea what they might have used.

Bob

[ebtnut]

The issue with light track is the axle loading of the locomotive, i.e., the engine weight each driving axle supports.  The Y's, with 16 drivers, had a fairly light axle loading and could venture onto most mine branch lines.  The Class A with only 12 drivers, had a higher axle loading and weren't as suitable.  Also, there were lots of Y's towards the end, so they go used in whatever service was needed.  It appears that the last road engine to drop its fire was a Y6.  The last N&W steam loco to be retired was apparently one of the 0-8-0's at Roanoke. 

[VirginiaCentral]

The last N&W steam engine in active service was class S1a 0-8-0 number 291 at Williamson, WV (not Roanoke, Va.) May 7, 1960.

[SteamGene]

When did the Valley Line drop steam?  I began military school in Waynesboro where the C&O crossed over the N&W in September, 1957.  There was on steam on the Valley Line that I ever saw or heard. 
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Axle loading of various N&W steam locos:

Class A (2-6-6-4) - 65,500 lb/axle

Class Y6 (2-8-8-2) - 59,250 lb/axle

Class Z (2-6-6-2) - 57,000 lb/axle

Class M (4-8-0) - 38,000 lb/axle

The under 60,000 lb/axle loading is fairly standard for medium weight trackwork. many eastern raods had very heavy mailine trackage to handle locos like the Class A and the C&O H8 with their much heavier axle loads.

I have no N&W mine branch info, but it is likely that first Class Z and later all Y Classes would have worked mines. The necessary TE required for such work would have required locos of this size.

One other note - at the slow speeds of mine work, such axle loads would not reqiure as heavy a trackage as mainline speeds for the same loco.

Sheldon

[VirginiaCentral]

When did the Valley Line drop steam? According to Mason Cooper's book "Norfolk and Western's Shenandoah Valley Line" the last steam engines on the SV ran February 20, 1957.

Jerry

[SteamGene]

So I "just" missed it. 
Gene