Problem with Left Hand Switch

[HO-N-Engineer]

I'm having a problem with an E-Z Track 44861 Remote Left-Hand Switch. Every time I take the turnout to the inside track my cars derail, but only if they are being pulled by the locomotive. If they are being pushed, or if they are being pulled over the same area of the switch backwards there is absolutely no problem at any speed. It is frustrating that all of the cars in the set will do this on their own if being pulled behind the locomotive.

Can anyone suggest a fix? I think there might be too much distance between the straight section and the switch when activated to use the turnout. I just can't figure out why under any other circumstances it doesn't derail the cars. 

[brokemoto]

Does the locomotive derail, also?

What locomotive is it?

What kind of cars are they?

The curve of that turnout is supposed to match the B-mann11,25 inch radius curves, so it is a bit sharp.  Do you have the turnout right off of a curve?  Sometimes that will do it.

The locomotive could be pulling the cars off the track.  If the locomotive is larger and the cars have body mount couplers, that could be doing it.  If you are running passenger cars that are longer than sixty five scale feet, that could be the problem, as larger cars do not like those curves.  Make sure that the points are securely up against the stock rail.  Usually, the machine will throw the switch properly, but if you are throwing it manually, sometimes the points do not align properly.

Do these things derail at track speed, only, or will they derail even at slow speed?

There are places on my pike where I have these things, but trains go through the diverging only at slow speed and with not many cars.  I run cars from a variety of manufacturers.  I do not run passenger cars through them.  The only six axle diesels that I run through them are a pair of older Atlas/Kato SD-7s.  Those locomotives are tolerant of some pretty sharp curves and trackwork that is less than professional grade.  The only steam locomotives that I run through them are 2-8-0 or smaller.  Other than that, I run four axle diesels.

[HO-N-Engineer]

I have the Bachmann Super Chief set with the F7A locomotive, Steel Gondola, 40' Box Car, and 36' Steel Cupola Caboose.

The track is not permanently affixed to the board I have it on. That is simply to keep it flat. I have tried to level it as best I can on a mattress.



The first car after the locomotive derails, but the following cars don't at first.





I can get the caboose around at ridiculously slow speed, but otherwise all the cars will derail no matter what speed. If I roll the cars around this switch by hand there is no problem. If I run the locomotive in the opposite direction, counter clockwise, the cars will not derail at any speed.

[brokemoto]

If you run it the opposite direction, does it derail when it comes to the other facing point turnout?  Does it simply derail on the one when it is facing point, or both?

Does it jump at the points, the frog or when it gets the the piece of track attached to the turnout?

If it is jumping at the facing points or frog of one turnout, but clears the other when the points are facing, the problem is somewhere in the turnout.

The other thing to check is to make sure that your rail joiners are not misaligned.  Misaligned rail joiners is not an uncommon problem with
B-mann or Atlas sectional track.  If it is jumping at the joint between the diverging track of the turnout and the section of track joined to it, often the problem is a misaligned rail joiner.  Sometimes, the section of track is defective, but this is the least frequently occurring problem with this particular brand of track.

I have some of these cars.  The couplers are body mounts, but they clear the turnouts on my pike, which actually does use some of the turnouts that are in your photograph.  The problem is not turnouts too close to a curve, either.

Another possibility is out of gauge wheels.  You can order a test gauge from many places on line.  If the locomotive is clearing, I would not touch the wheels on it.  You can check the wheels on the cars and adjust with very little trouble.

[gatrhumpy]

Use an N scale gauge to test the distance between the wheels and also check the track gauge distance and the points of the switch.

[HO-N-Engineer]

Quick update: I'm getting a gauge to check the rails. I don't think that all the cars can have the same problem, but they will be checked as well.

[HO-N-Engineer]

I haven't gotten a test gauge yet, but I did find out something about the cars I was using and the locomotive as well. I have a U6B that I hadn't used on this track before (Because I just got it.)  So, last night I tried this older loco with some cars with the Rapido couplers that I have been buying to expand the set, and the whole train went around the track through the left hand switch without a problem. No derails, no disconnects, and no hesitation. This U6B loco is larger than the F7-A that I got with the starter set so I'm wondering if the size had anything to do with it.



This U6B is a great loco, but it's loud, and it doesn't go slow very well. I'm wondering if that's because it's NOS (New Old Stock) and it needs to be run, or if they were all that loud. I bought an 0-6-0 at the same time and it's just as loud. Again it's NOS, so I still have the same question about the speed and noise. Is there a way to make these less noisy?

I'm keeping everything Santa Fe because I've always like the colors and mystique of the line.

Right now we're running a figure 8 and the original cars have no problem running over the crossing.



I thought it would probably cause some derailments, but everything is going well.

The original question stands, and now I'm wondering if changing over to the EZ Mate knuckle couplers would be a good idea. Would it solve the problem with the derailments, and would they work with other trains couplers?

I'll have more after I can make the measurements I need to make.

[spookshow]

Sounds like the wheels might be out of gauge on the F7. Either loco should be fine with those turnouts.

Or if you reconfigured the track before trying the U36B, maybe you corrected a joiner misalignment problem.

-Mark

[brokemoto]

When you mentioned couplers, you suggested another possibility:  are the coupler trip pins catching on the rails of the turnout?  I have seen this problem less on B-mann products that have whatever-those-knuckle-couplers-are that Bachpersonn uses.  This problem occurs frequently on Micro-Trains and Accu-Mate couplers (Atlas, for one, uses Accu-Mate couplers).  

The fix on the MTs is not hard:  you either move up or bend up the trip pin so that it will clear the rails.  Bending it is usually the better solution.  If you simply move up the thing, the part that sticks out of the top of the coupler may foul the shell of the car and cause derailments.  The trip pins on the Accu-Mates do not take well to moving or bending.  Usually, that causes them to pop out, which does not hamper their performance.

The Bachmann coupler trip pins do not take well to bending or moving, either.  In fact, you must take care NOT TO LET THE TRIP PIN POP OUT of those couplers.  If you do, the whole coupler discombobulates.  Break a leg on getting that external spring back into place.  Ask me how I know this.

It is unusual that the trip pin on the B-mann couplers fouls the track, but it does happen.  It happens far more frequently with the MT or Accu-Mate.  If you do not want to replace the B-mann coupler, you might get away with taking a pair of rail nippers (I have a beat-up pair I use for purposes such as this) and VERY CAREFULLY cut off a small piece from end of the trip pin, so that it clears the track---IF this is your problem.

You should convert your equipment to knuckle couplers as soon as you can and, henceforth, as you acquire any with the Rapido couplers, you should convert them as soon as you determine that they are satisfactory and do not need to be returned for defects.  The manufacturers have been getting away from the Rapidos for some time, now.   The MT website has a conversion chart for almost everything.  B-mann does sell some dummy knuckle couplers that will fit into the coupler pockets of most equipment that has Rapidos.

The GE U-boat is an older locomotive, so I wonder how much more performance you will get out of it.  Those older things can be quite noisy (the usual term applied is "coffee grinder") and the slow speed control on most of them is not the best.  The power that the manufacturers have put out since the mid-1990s is far better.  One of the posters to your topic, Spookshow, has a website that will tell you anything that you want to know about almost any power that is out there or has been out there.  There is also an encyclopedia of rolling stock.  Spookshow has rendered, and continues to render, a great service to this hobby and to N scale by his maintenance of his site.  He has gone as far as to dismantle new (and pricey) power just so that the rest of us could see how it went together.  All Honour to him always for services rendered to N scale.

[Joe Satnik]

Hi, All.

Doing a quick read, I didn't notice anyone mentioning "proper weighting" of the rolling stock.

(Formulas on NMRA.org website, I think.)

The heavier loco puts side force on the coupler in the curves.

Add a few pennies of weight and see what happens.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[HO-N-Engineer]

Well, I received the Standards Gauge, but I haven't had the time to do anything with the trains since then. I did a quick check of the one car that I suspect could be a problem, but the wheel spacing and size were good. I'll be making some time this week to do more. I hope that things work out in the next couple of days to do a whole setup and test the track again with all the possible cars and locos and find this problem. Joe, thanks for the input, I had considered that the weight might be off, but with just one area being the problem I pretty much dismissed that possibility until I worked everything else.

So, be back soon.

[Airjockey]

There's a You Tube segment that shows a similar problem caused by too small a gap between the rail and the guard rail at the frog.  Could be the problem.  Check the gap on all the guard rails - both turnouts - and see if one is unusually small.