On30 Graduated Pier Set

[camper07]

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I just purchased a Bachmann Northern Light Passenger Train for my Christmas village.  I also purchased the Bachmann On30 E-Z Track Graduated Pier Set (#44595).  After Assembling on a 4x8 foam board I installed the Pier set but the train with the 3 passenger cars does not make it passed the 4 th pier and just spins out on the track.
Thanks,
Peter
Miami Lakes, FL

[the Bach-man]

Dear Camper,
The EZ Track pier set is for HO. The On30 equipment is too big and heavy, unless you space out the piers considerably, in which case you will need intermediate piers, shimmed to maintain grade.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[camper07]

This specific set states for On30 trains.  None the less, I spaced the piers at 1-1/2 track, but the train still spins out.  I guess I will try to create some longer grade with foam.  Will let you know how that works out.
Thanks for your input.

[japasha]

I used Woodland Scenics foam ramps on my layout. I would use a piece of plywood under the foam to hold it in place. Do not use the 4% grade, use the 3% or less if you can.  You will find tht the 2-6-0 will only pull three passenger cars or five freight cars up the 3% grade. It's just liek the prototype, they rarely ran more than three passenger cars with one 2-6-0.

If you can, use 22 inch radius curves which will ease the resistance on the grade.

[OldStone]

Don't know anything about pier sets, but......
My On30 Mogul "spins out" on a 3% grade if I pull three passenger cars.  It makes out fine with two.  I do have a heavier-than-normal tender with all-wheel pickup (my first Tsunami instal) so that is probably adding to the load.  However, I find that I am completely satisfied with a "train" of Mogul-Combine-Passenger (one).
The 2-6-0 is an earlier design and quite light-weight.  The 2-8-0 would probably do better, but I don't have one.  Since I'm happy with my 2-car pass. trains I haven't tried adding weights to the Mogul....has anyone else on this thread?

OldStone,  Chief Supt. of Weights and Measures, O & W Rwy.

[Hamish K]

Dear Camper,
The EZ Track pier set is for HO. The On30 equipment is too big and heavy, unless you space out the piers considerably, in which case you will need intermediate piers, shimmed to maintain grade.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

Well - the online catalogue states, for set #44595 "Create an over/under figure �8� layout or similar configurations. Appropriate for higher HO elevations and On30 clearances"

I have seen these sets in shops, they do (or did) state for ON30 on the box.

If the sets  result in grades to steep for ON30 Bachmann needs to reconsider the wording on the boxes and in the catalogue. Can HO cope with the grades any better?

Can any-one say which Bachmann ON30 locos with what loads can cope with the grades these sets require?

Hamish

[japasha]

The problem may really be grade. If you have an 18" radius set of track then the grade is about 5.7%. That's way too much for the 2-6-0. If you have 22 inch radius then you have a 4.5% or so grade with the normal over-and-under set.

I went out and checked my 3% grade and the 2-6-0 pulled five passenger cars up the grade before slipping. If you want a 5.7% grade, use the shay:))

[scottychaos]

If the sets  result in grades to steep for ON30 Bachmann needs to reconsider the wording on the boxes and in the catalogue. Can HO cope with the grades any better?

Hamish

Or people just need to be smart enough to understand that a very steep hill means that maybe not every train will be able to go up it.

nah..thats no good..just blame bachmann for not making trains that can defy the laws of physics..thats easier.

Scot

[camper07]

Thanks, All great Input. For the record, I am not trying to put the blame on Bachmann, but Hamish does have a point.  I just went out and spent over $300.00 on the set, additional track, and the pier set (only $20.00).  Not a whole bunch of money per say.  But I certainly was disappointed when I set up 48 pcs of track, assembled and installed the pier set, called my 2-1/2 year old son (Also a train lover).  Only to watch the poor thing choke just as it starts up the grade.  My son said, "daddy you broke it"  .  This is my first purchase of Bachmann, and I like the train set.  It goes great with my Dept 56 Village.  I do own several Lionel, MTH, K-Line, and Artisto Craft trains.  Mostly O gauge, and the Aristo is new on a small setup in my yard.  The Bachmann runs very smoothly and is perfectly fit in my village, but after spending an hour or so on the setup, how do you explain to a 2-1/2 year old, that daddy didnt break it, so kudo's to Hamish, and shame on Bachmann.

[Hamish K]

Or people just need to be smart enough to understand that a very steep hill means that maybe not every train will be able to go up it.

nah..thats no good..just blame bachmann for not making trains that can defy the laws of physics..thats easier.

Scot

Scot

There is no need to be sarcastic.

First, the Bach Man stated that the pier sets were NOT meant for ON30 when the catalogue and boxes state that they are - so this does need sorting out.

Second, pier sets are essentially aimed at beginners to add on to train sets - they are likely to assume that they will work with the set they have bought. When the pier set states that it is suitable for ON30 clearances most beginners are likely to assume it  will work with what are the only ON30 sets produced by Bachmann.  While more experienced modellers will be aware of the issue of steep grades I think it is unreasonable to expect total beginners to be aware of this.

I am not blaming Bachmann for what they make, just suggesting that they could avoid upsetting customers if they were a bit more careful about thier marketing.

Hamish

[scottychaos]

Scot

There is no need to be sarcastic.

there is also no need to pass up a good opportunity! 
just injecting a little dose of common sense..sometimes its needed.

Scot

[amdaylight]

Camper07,

What I would suggest you do is try it with one less car and see if it makes it up the grade, and if that does not work take one more car of the train. I saw the over under set that you bought and I wondered if the 2-6-0 would go up that hauling a train knowing how light the 2-6-0 was. Now other than the over under part the rest should run for years, I know mine has.

Andre Anderson

[Jonathan MacCormack]

Product blame assessment always comes before the inadequate modeling practices and experience of the layout builder.

Lengthen the grade, open the curves, use a heavier engine, and don't let expectations overwhelm the results.

Jonathan