garden railroad

[Chuck N]

No one is putting nickel silver track in a starter set.  The Bachmann track is steel, not stainless steel.  It works very well indoors, but outdoors it will end up as a pile of red dust.

[mrrailroad]

Thanks everone  what's everyones opinion on a raised railroad or on the ground?




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[Kevin Strong]

Both have their merits. On the ground layouts are easier on the bank account to construct since you're not needing to build retaining walls, etc., or ordering truckloads of dirt to fill in the space behind said retaining walls (and waiting for the dirt to settle before construction so your railroad doesn't sink, etc...)

On the flip side, "on the ground" means under foot, and can (and will) get walked on, knocked into, tripped over, etc. It also means you're going to spend a lot of time bending over, kneeling, or contorting yourself to do maintenance. If you're not as flexible as you used to be, it's something to consider.

Also you have to consider what works better with your landscape. Often, a raised railraod isn't practical given the constraints of the yard. In otther cases such as steeply sloped hillsides, it's often the only way you can go.

Later,

K

[mrrailroad]

How steep can you put the track before its straining the train motor



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[Nathan]

I am not talking about a 50 degree change over a year, I am talking about a 50 degree change in 24 hours.

While the theory of expansion is one thing, the real world is what I am talking about.  Several people have used Nickle Silver rail and had problems with their layouts when one rail on a track was in the sun and the other rail because of a building or trees was not.  The rail in the sun ripped out of the tie strip.

Yes, stainless is harder to cut.  I went to my local home center and they had some hack saw blades for stainless.  Yes, it took time.  After cutting I then filed the rail end smooth.

Stainless does not conduct as well as the others.  Yes we added additional feed points.  No we did not solder the rail, we used rail clamps.  When we went from brass to stainless we used 8 foot lengths of rail.  We started with the outer rail of a loop and went counter clockwise replacing the existing rail.  Then we went clockwise on the inner rail.  This made it so the joints did not line up except at the turnouts.  This helped in reducing derailments due to expansion and contraction.

Tie strips have been a problem.  Some have had to be replaced in as little as 5 years.  Others have lasted over 20 years.

Track cleaning for the club layout was easier with the stainless compared to the brass.  The club has a track cleaning car that has a block that you wrap dry wall sanding plastic around.  They also have a stick type dry wall sanding pad and one they have warped a piece of towel around.  The track cleaning car is run.  Where the bad spots are you use the dry wall sanding stick and where the sap from the trees is you use isopropyl alcohol on the towel.  The club runs three to four days each weekend.  With the brass track it normally took an hour to clean the track.  With the stainless it normally takes 1/2 hour.

The only other problem has been where the deer run through the layout area, the club is in a park and can not put up a fence, the deer have caught their hooves's on the tack and ripped some of it up.

[armorsmith]

Nathan,

I am not talking about a 50 degree change over a year, I am talking about a 50 degree change in 24 hours.

Time has no bearing on thermal expansion.  The expansion will be the same regardless of whether it is 24 hours or 24 years, expansion is a function of material, length and temperature rise.

While the theory of expansion is one thing, the real world is what I am talking about.

I will address this in the real world.  I have seen 1/4" steel plate with 6" channel stiffeners wleded to the plate where the welds have been broken apart and the plate with rips in it from thermal expansion.  I have seen compaines spend thousands of dollars in extra piping to allow for thermal expansion in steam pipes to keep them from stress carcking, they call them "expansions loops".  Look them up if lyou would like.  Real world is the world of Physics, and the laws of Physics don't change just because we are in model railroading.

Several people have used Nickle Silver rail and had problems with their layouts when one rail on a track was in the sun and the other rail because of a building or trees was not.  The rail in the sun ripped out of the tie strip.

What I am reading between the lines in your statement above is that you (meaning the people you refer to, your club, yourself or whomever) have your track anchored far too tightly.  Let me explain my feelings. IF you have the differential expansion you allege in your statement above you have far greater issues than just expansion.  By your statement I gather that 1) all the screws are still in place anchoring the tie strips to the rail, 2) all the tie strips are securely anchored to a sub roadbed that is permanent with little or no give, 3) you are using some form of rigid joining system such as "Hillman" or "Split Jaw", and 5) you have quite long runs between switches with no allowance for expansion.  Based on that statement I would think you will have a devil of a time trying to keep alignment.  I have no doubt that the rail that had the most expansio 'ripped out of the tie strip'.

When we went from brass to stainless we used 8 foot lengths of rail.  We started with the outer rail of a loop and went counter clockwise replacing the existing rail.  Then we went clockwise on the inner rail.  This made it so the joints did not line up except at the turnouts.  This helped in reducing derailments due to expansion and contraction.

Making certain that the joiners do not line up will aid in eliminating derailments in any rail material just for the reason that the tie strip will hold the gauge at the joint using the continuous rail through rail for stability.  Stainless steel has not bearing here, nor does the expansion and contraction.

Now let me make a couple of suggestions.  First, if you wish to maintain the rigid nature of your track and joining system, then I recommend that you allow your track to free float on the road bed.  Remove any anchorage between the tie strips and the road bed (except at the switches, they need to be fixed).  This is exactly what the prototype does.  And in case you haven't heard, they also have issues with alignment from thermal expansion even with a floating system.  The floating system allows the track as a whole to absorb the expansion by pushing and pulling a little here and a little there on curves, maybe makine one slightly larger radius and one slightly smaller.  My club layout has several 270 degree 20 diameter curves and in the heat of the summer we have seen the center of the curve move as much as 1.5 to 1.75 inches with the expansion.

If you wish to maintain the ties anchored to the road bed, maybe for clearance or other reasons, then I suggest removing the screws from the ties to the rails and allowing the rail to slide in the tie strip.  You will also need to either install "Hillman" style expansion joints or gap the ends of the rails every other length by about a quarter thickness or so to allow the rial someplace to expand.  Allowing the rail to move will eliminate it ripping itself out of the tie strips.

I will describe my personal method for track laying.  I will be using a ladder system of PVC pipe posts and pressure treated lattice strips for the runners with pressure treated blocking for track anchoring.  I will be joining two sections of track with rigid joiners.  The tie strips on either side of the joiners will be left secured to the rail.  ALL other screws will be removed.  Standard slip joiners will be used on the ends of the track in the normal as supplied fashion.  This will produce a 10 foot section of track.  This section will be located and all tie strips secured to the ladder system.  NOTE - except at the center, the rail is free to slide in the tie strips.  The next 10 foot section will be located and secured in a similar manner, except there will be a 3/32 inch gap between the ends of the rail sections, the joiners will be used for alighment only.  Sections will be electrically joined with soldered wire jumpers from 10 soot section to section.  This will allow for the expansion of the rail, and the differential expansion of the track and the ladder system.  It sounds like a lot of up front work, and it will be.  However, I have learned from experience that expansion must be dealt with, and will not be denied or contained.

Critter problems are the bane of others.

Bob C.

[mrrailroad]

thanks anybody have ideas of companies that make dcc controllers(wireless) for g scale?

another thing I'm working on a website does anyone like it? It's still in construction though

http://gardentrains.webs.com/

[Nathan]

At least 3 companies make DCC compatible wireless items that use battery power:

CVP  http://cvpusa.com/
NCE  http://ncedcc.com/
QSI   http://www.qsisolutions.com/

Tony's has several pages of information about them:  http://tonystrains.com/index.html

If you are just looking for wireless cabs and track power all the major DCC manufactures can so that.

Nathan 

[smcgill]

mrrailroad
Were are you located?
This info helps to answer questions!
You never know we may be neighbors??
Welcome aboard!
You can find a lot of info @ this location :http://www.largescalecentral.com/members/home
Good luck !
P.S. Every one loves Pics!!

[mrrailroad]

kansas




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[Kevin Strong]

Kansas is a big state, but there are active groups in KC and Wichita. Don't know about western Kansas. If you're within a few hours' drive of any of those groups, I'd strongly recommend getting in touch with them (assuming you haven't yet.) I think they do summer tours and/or a regional show every year, but don't quote me.

Later,

K

[mrrailroad]

There are two garden railroad clubs near me But haven't had the chance to go to one I mean I'm only 11


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[veetwelve]

Eleven?!  THAT explains why your website looks so great!

Keep at it... we need a younger perspective in this hobby!

All the best,
Jay

[mrrailroad]

thank you Jay. I've worked on it for a while.

[mrrailroad]

another Question whats a good starter set I have one but I bought it used and I'm going to sell it to buy a new one any suggestions?


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