Peter Witt streetcar

[trolley]

 The suggestion was made that the company should paint the Peter Witt Streetcar in Cream and Maroon to represent the Toronto Transit Commission (formerly Toronto Transportation Commission) Cars.

There are two basic problems with this suggestion:

1)  The Toronto Peter Witts, of which there were three versions, now at the Halton County Radial Railway Museum (hcry.org),  were very different from those used in Brooklyn,  Philadelphia,  other US cities and Mexico.  The differences would be obvious and make the cars look obviously wrong,  particularly due to the differences in the fronts of the cars.   A model of the Brill version was produced by Fairfield Models (aka Model Tramway System) in brass, in the distant past.  An internet search  may locate such a unit.

2) There were numerous colour schemes during the period from approximately 1921 to the 1960's, some very complicated.  There were also different shades of Cream and Maroon paint used, the closest to the actual colours having been available in epoxy paint under the Hobbypoxy brand.  Decals have been available in HO from Custom Traxx and Dry Transfer Lettering from CDS.

[Orsonroy]

While I can't comment on whether there will be multiple numbers for each paint scheme, I took a look at several web sites to research whether there is evidence that the cars ran in pairs.

http://www.btco.net/Vehicles/Witt/ provides a wealth of detail on Baltimore Peter Witt cars and their route assignments, and has some clear photos of the cars that do not show any couplers on the front end (exception being the two 1924 cars which had a different body and door configuration).

In addition to the Peter Witt at Baltimore Streetcar Musuem, another survivor (6144) is at Seashore Trolley Museum:
http://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/national/6144.html

Hope this helps a little. 

Paul F.

Not only pairs, but triples. I just talked to my dad (a huge traction fan and longtime CERA member) and he distinctly remembers the CSL Witts in doubles and triples, especially during the evening rush in downtown Chicago. All of the cars were equipped with MU capabilities and two poles, so the cars could run in either direction with a single carman (the cars on the ends were facing different directions).

I'll be getting at least two of these cars. Onc in CSL for my dad to play with when he's visiting, and one to kitbash into an ITC 100-series car (until I can find a 280-series Suydam car!)

[paulsafety]

While I can't comment on whether there will be multiple numbers for each paint scheme, I took a look at several web sites to research whether there is evidence that the cars ran in pairs.

http://www.btco.net/Vehicles/Witt/ provides a wealth of detail on Baltimore Peter Witt cars and their route assignments, and has some clear photos of the cars that do not show any couplers on the front end (exception being the two 1924 cars which had a different body and door configuration).

In addition to the Peter Witt at Baltimore Streetcar Musuem, another survivor (6144) is at Seashore Trolley Museum:
http://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/national/6144.html

Hope this helps a little. 

Paul F.

Not only pairs, but triples. I just talked to my dad (a huge traction fan and longtime CERA member) and he distinctly remembers the CSL Witts in doubles and triples, especially during the evening rush in downtown Chicago. All of the cars were equipped with MU capabilities and two poles, so the cars could run in either direction with a single carman (the cars on the ends were facing different directions).

I'll be getting at least two of these cars. Onc in CSL for my dad to play with when he's visiting, and one to kitbash into an ITC 100-series car (until I can find a 280-series Suydam car!)

Orsonroy,

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear -- I meant to say that I was referring specifically to the Baltimore peter witt cars in response to FallsvalleyRR's questions.  I appreciate your comments about Chicago's operations -- I don't know much about CSL.

Thanks for sharing your insights!

Paul F.

[Frankford el car]

Since I have two seperate trolley routes on my layout, I'm going to dedicate one of them to the DCC-equipted cars, for the time being. Can Bachmann's DCC decoders be safely retrofitted, to older Bachmann PCC's and Brill Suburban trolleys? I have a number of each, that I'd like to run on the same route, as the Peter Witt's, when I start adding those to my trolley roster. Also, can Bachmann's DCC-decoders work with the Proto 1000 subway cars, or those "pancake" motors used in older Bachmann diesels, similar to the ones in older Bachmann trolleys.

[RAM]

Any decoder will work with Bachmann's DCC system.  any power unit can be changed to run with DCC.  I think you will find that you are better off replacing the units with the pancake moters than tring to change them to DCC.  On non DDC ready locomotive, you MUST isolate the motors from the frames, In most cases you
will need to repower the unit.  After you do this and buy the decoder, you may have already spent more than a new unit would cost.

[FallsvalleyRR]

Im going to beg pardon and ask a question for the Baltimore Folks on this thread. I keep thinking that Taylor Ave at Hartford Road might have been a loop at one time for a trolley line. Does anyone know anything about that route in that part of the city about the time of ww2?

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

There was a loop just north of Taylor Ave at Harford Road. (Got this Information out of "Baltimore and its Street Cars")

[FallsvalleyRR]

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[Jonathan MacCormack]

Dr EMD,

Any chance for end, side and bottom shot of running gear pictures ??

You my many thanks in advance.

Jonthan

[ebtbob]

Good morning all,

      I do not know if this has been asked yet,  what type of motor is in this new trolley car?   Is it a can or flat motor?   

[ebtnut]

One of the pics I saw posted on the net seemed to look like the trucks are individually powered, maybe similar to the Bachmann GE 44-tonner.

[Frankford el car]

Are there any photos of production cars in any of the paint schemes listed yet?

[Dr EMD]

Dr EMD,

Any chance for end, side and bottom shot of running gear pictures ??

You my many thanks in advance.

Jonthan

Sorry, but I found this only photo on my LHS web site.

[oldline1]

Im going to beg pardon and ask a question for the Baltimore Folks on this thread. I keep thinking that Taylor Ave at Hartford Road might have been a loop at one time for a trolley line. Does anyone know anything about that route in that part of the city about the time of ww2?

I grew up in Baltimore in the 1950's and would often ride the streetcars, busses and trackless-trolleys. The line going up Harford Rd did end at a turning loop just north of Taylor Ave. There was a neat magazine stand there with MR, Craftsman, Trains and Railroad Magazine. The best part, though, was the short walk north of the loop to City-Wide Hobby Shop. It was a great little shop and had most anything you needed back then including brass.

I'm not 100% sure but I think this was the last steetcar line in Baltimore and ran until around 1963. It lost a lot of charm when the tracks went out and the GMC busses took over. I rode a lot of PCC cars through that loop!

There was another turning loop in Overlea on BelAir Rd and also a neat hobby shop across the street. Some kind of neat trend in Baltimore, I guess.

I'll be getting at least one Peter Witt in BTC just because!

Roger

[Jonathan MacCormack]

Dr EMD,

Thanks for the reply.

It is a shame we haven't heard from the Bach Man on this.

Jonathan