emmett kelly jr train

[hvacal1]

 hello everyone.  i am in need of a little help.  i had some surgery done recently and to pass my time while not working i decided to go through all my trains the last few days. i got a spare bedroom full of all kinds ranging from n to g scales. anyway, i purchased the ringmaster set im guessing now right after it came out in 93. over the years i had purchased most of what i could find relating to the ekj line, most of which has never even been opened.  i will list what i have and if there is anything missing, could someone give me the item # and a possbile place to purchase if known. thanks in advance.  ok here goes.

90020 ringmaster set
         includes 91271 loco
                      98171 elephant car (yellow car with red trim)
                      98372 cage car #2 with bear and gorilla
                      97171 ad car
                      92320 ekj figure

90019 roustabout set
         includes porter loco (dont know product # if any)
                      caboose (dont know product #)
                      98374 giraffe and hippo flat
                      92320 ekj figure

98371 cage car #1 with lion and tiger ( i have 2)
98371 cage car #2 with bear and gorilla (in own box)         92381 lion figure
98172 horse car                                                               92382 tiger
98374 giraffe and hippo (in own box)                                 92383 bear
98171 elephant car (red car with yellow trim)                      92384 gorilla
92705 tableau car # 1                                                       92385 elephant
92706 tableau car # 2                                                       92386 horse
98373 calliope wagon                                                        92387 giraffe
97271 performers car # 1                                                  92388 hippo
92703 cage wagon with bear
92704 cage wagon with gorilla

i purchased the bachmann brothers line 98384 zebra car, tent car, pole car, and tanker

as of today, 1-19-12, here is what i found i know I DO NOT HAVE
97371 performers car # 2
92701 cage wagon with lion 
92702 cage wagon with tiger (bidding on one on ebay now)
would like to know about zebra figure alone if available

if i am missing something, please help me out. thanks for any help. hope everyone has a great day!

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I am I am not at home right now but when I get back home I'll try to get an answer 4 you . 

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I will not be home until the middle of next week

[hvacal1]

thanks bill.  i look forward to seeing what you come up with.  thanks again. al

[Barry BBT]

When you complete your train, the loco will be unable to pull it.  I make two repower kits for the circus loco, the standard 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0 version.  Both look completely stock.

E mail me and I can send you pics of each.

Barry - BBT

[hvacal1]

hanks barry.  but i'm probably not gonna line up the train.  the roustabout set is stil new.  it has never been out of the box, still factory sealed, as are about 3 or 4 or so of the other cars.  i'm probably gonna leave them like that.  but it is real good to know about the engine upgrade. thanks very much.

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I have copied here extracts which are part of the book I wrote on Bachmann Large scale products which has never been published.   It is however copyrighted and while I put it here for you the readers enjoyment I DO HAVE ALL RIGHTS RESERVED and ask that you not copy it, publish it elsewhere or send it to anyone else without permission.  Copyright 1993 to 2112 All rights reserved.  Thanks
Here is what I have on the Bachmann Circus Equipment in Large Scale.  Although I have done massive research, I do make mistakes from time to time.  So readers please point out any errors and let me know.  My email address is public.  Just click on it on my profile.  It is also important to know that some items made by Bachmann which were in sets never got a Bachmann number because they were never sold separately in their own box.  I have at times assigned numbers of my own to keep my databases straight and I will try to point it out when I remember to do so.

Bachmann obtained the rights to use the Emmett Kelly Circus line in late 1992 and gave it up in 2004.  All circus equipment produced after that was the Bachmann Brothers Circus line.  In stock items were still sold after that until they ran out
There were two cases where Circus cars had Emmett Kelly car numbers and Bachmann Brothers Circus lettering. These were unintentional errors in manufacturing.  See notes below.
There were six circus train sets, but only five were actually produced.  Set 90019 was in the catalog in 1993, had a 2-4-2 loco lion & tiger flat car and Bobber caboose #36, but was never produced.  I have never been able to find out why.
90105   EKJX   The Big Top RC 27 mhz   1993   OOP   Circus   7   Ver1   Flat  #144 Lion & Tiger White   Combine All Star Circus    This set has the Battery powered radio controlled 4-6-0   #7 which never got a Bachmann number.
90020   EKJX   The Ringmaster   1993   2006   OOP   49   Ver2to5   Stock  EKJX#153 Elephant   Flat #162 Bear & Gorilla   Combine "All Star Circus"      This set was in the catalog from 1993 to 2006 and 4-6-0 #49 had all four versions of chassis.  In 2003 The Elephant stock car colors were reversed and the Combine was made in a yellow orange color.  The Bachmann numbers were not changed and the new cars kept their old Bachmann numbers.
90021   EKJX   The Big Top   1994   1998   OOP   49   Ver3-4   Flat #144 Lion & Tiger White   Combine All Star Circus.  In the catalog in 1994, 1995, and 1997 & 1998
90019   EKJX   The Roustabout 0-4-0 Loco 1997 2000   OOP   1   N/A   Flat #232 Giraffe & Hippo  Bobber Caboose EJKX#36. Catalog set from 1997 to 2000     The loco and caboose from this set were never available separately and never got a Bachmann number.
90049   BBCX   Bachmann Bros Big Top   2005   2008   OOP   46   Ver 5   Zebra Stock Car BBCX 253   Bach Bros Caboose #40 Yellow.  This set was in the catalog from 2005 to 2008 and is the only set made with the Bachmann Bros name.     
Here is the list of all items including those in sets  Bachmann Numbers with an * are made up by me and the item never had an individual Bachmann Number because it was in a set only.  Ignore the P and C  where found as they are only database references.
91271   EKJX   49   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Emmett Kelly Circus   P      C   $140.00  Set 90020 and separately          
91000* BBCX    46          2005      ~Loco     4-6-0, Emmett Kelly Circus   Only available in set 90049 No Bachmann number
91000* EKJX    7             1993       ~Loco     4-6-0, Emmett Kelly Circus   Only available in set 90105 No Bachmann number
92388         1997   ZAccessory   Cage, w/ Hippopotamus         C      $11.50                   
92701         1994   ZAccessory   Cage, w / lion         C      $22.00                   
92702         1994   ZAccessory   Cage, w / tiger         C      $22.00                   
92703         1994   ZAccessory   Cage, w / bear         C      $22.00                   
92704         1994   ZAccessory   Cage, w / gorilla         C      $22.00                   
92705   EKJX   225   1994   Flat Car   Tableau wagon #1   P      C   yellow flat   $65.00    blue wagons               
92706   EKJX   234   1994   Flat Car   tableau wagon #2   P      C   Blue flat   $65.00    yellow/red wagons               
92707   EKJX      N/A   Flat Car   tent poles see 98380   N      C   EKJX never made      Announced Never Made                 
92708   EKJX      N/A   Flat Car   tent canvas see 98379   N      C   EKJX never made      Announced Never Made                 
97171   EKJX   None   1993   P Combine   Emmett Kelly  Red body   P      C   Battery Lights   $65.00    
97000*   EKJX   None   2003   P Combine   Emmett Kelly  Yellow/Orange Body later run     P      C   Battery Lights   $65.00    Only in set 90020    never sold as a separate item   No Bachmann Number         
97271   EKJX   4   1994   P-Coach   Emmett Kelly Performer's Car #1   P      C   Battery Lights   $70.00                   
97371   EKJX   1   1994   P-Obs   Emmett Kelly Jr. Performer's Car #2   P      C   Battery Lights   $80.00                   
97381   BBCX   None   2004   P-Obs   Bachmann Brothers Performer's Observation   P      C   Battery Lights   $88.00    Bachmann Brothers               
98171   EKJX   153   1993   Stock Car   E. Kelly, w / elephant   P      C   Yellow sides   $45.00    Set 90020               
98000*   EKJX   153   2003   Stock Car   E. Kelly, w / elephant   P      C   Red Sides   $45.00    Later Run   never sold as a separate item   No Bachmann Number         
98172   EKJX   306   1995   Stock Car   E. Kelly, w / horse   P      C   White Sides   $45.00                   
98371   EKJX   144   1993   Flat Car   w / cages, lion & tiger  White Flat  Red wagons   P      C   White Flat   $74.00    In sets 90021 & 90105               NEW 1993
98372   EKJX   162   1993   Flat Car   w / cages, bear & gorilla   P      C   Red Flat   $74.00    Set 90020 White Wagons               NEW 1993
98373   EKJX   247   1996   Flat Car   w / calliope wagon   P      C   White Flat   $74.00    Red & Gold Wagon               
98374   EKJX   232   1997   Flat Car   w / cages, giraffe & hippo   P      C   Yellow flat   $79.50    Set 90019   Wagons  1 red 1 white               
98379   BBCX   434   2005   Flat Car   Tent Car Bachmann Brothers Circus   P      C       $88.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus               
98380   BBCX   425   2005   Flat Car   Pole Car Bachmann Brothers Circus   P      C       $88.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus               
98381   EKJX   162   2005   Flat Car   w / cages, bear & gorilla   P      C   Red   $88.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus   Car number is EKJX 162, but lettered Bachmann Brothers Circus            
98382   EKJX   232   2005   Flat Car   w / cages, giraffe & hippo   P      C   Yellow   $88.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus       Car number is EKJX 232, but lettered Bachmann Brothers Circus         
98383   BBCX   344   2005   Tank Car   Water Tank Car Bachmann Brothers Circus   P      C       $88.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus               
98384   BBCX   253   2006   Stock Car   Zebra Car with Zebra         C   metal wheels   $70.00    Bachmann Brothers Circus               
98385   BBCX   40   2006   Caboose4   4 whl, Yellow & Red with Blue Trim         C   metal wheels   $50.00    Set 90049 and  separately               
91000*   EKJX   1   1997   ~ Loco   0-4-0, Emmett Kelly Jr.   P      C       $90.00    Only sold in Set 90019No Bachmann Number   
98000*   EKJX   36   1997   Caboose4   4 whl, Emmett Kelly Jr. All Star Circus   P      C      $40.00    Only in Set 90019  No Bachmann Number               
 
I did not track the figures, so I can't answer about the zebra figure maybe Wade Colyer will know. I could not find a separate listing for it   

Hope this helps                  

[Wade Colyer]

Hi Al:

Here's what I've found for circus animals:

92381 Lion 1996 $7.00
92382 Tiger 1996 $7.00
92383 Bear 1996 $7.00
92384 Gorilla 1996 $7.00
92385 Elephant 1996 $11.50
92386 Horse 1996 $7.00
92387 Giraffe 1997 $11.50
92388 Hippopotamus 1997 $11.50

I could not find a listing for the Zebra anywhere. The next unused number is 92389 and if I found one separate, that's what I use in my inventory.

Wade

[ChooChooRon5683]

Hello, everyone!  I just joined the Bachmann Discussion Boards and so glad I found this conversation.  I can't believe it's over 4 years old.  Nevertheless, it's been very helpful.  Since around mid-2015 until now I've been collecting every piece I can find on the EKJ sets.  Though there may not yet be a major collecting value, they're beautiful and fun.    :-)   However, I believe I'm only down to needing 2 pieces to complete everything.  Loco Bill and Wade, your inventory lists have helped a lot.  THANK YOU!  What I need help with distinguishing is from Loco Bill's information regarding this:

97271   EKJX   4   1994   P-Coach   Emmett Kelly Performer's Car #1   P      C   Battery Lights   $70.00
97371   EKJX   1   1994   P-Obs   Emmett Kelly Jr. Performer's Car #2   P      C   Battery Lights   $80.00

After reading and re-reading everything, these are the only 2 pieces I don't see a distinction as to when/where they appeared as well as any possible identifying differences (i.e., color, design, etc.)  From my research on eBay and elsewhere, I now know that I have the 2nd one listed, the 97371 Obs Car #2.  It seems to be readily available everywhere I look.  So, my question is just what is 97271?  It references "Coach" instead of "Observation"; the price was lower; and I noticed that the "Jr." in Emmett Kelly's name is missing in the description, but maybe that's just a typo?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.  If it is definitely a different kind of car worth searching for, then I lack that one as well as the later model of the elephant car when they went from yellow with red trim to the newer red with yellow trim.  If anyone also happens to know how/where I may be able to obtain either or both, I would be much obliged.   :-)

Thank you in advance!

ChooChooRon

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Ron,

I got your other message, but will answer here so everyone can see it. 

Both cars were never in a set, but were sold separately beginning in 1994 and remained in the catalog until 1998.

They were both painted and lettered exactly the same except for the Road numbers and both had the Emmett Kelly Jr. in gold letters on a blue letterboard .  97271 was strictly a coach and typically of Bachmann pricing cost less ($70 MSRP) than the observation car.  The observation car 97371 has the wrap around handrails and the round lighted tailsign resulting the the higher MSRP of $80.

If you are a serious EKJ collector, you will want to keep looking for a 97271 as it is a great piece fairly rare and a perfect mate for your observation car.   I have heard that some EKJ collectors bought several coaches, carefully changing the car number so they could have a long passenger train form their imaginary circus performers!!

Hope that clarifies things.

Loco Bill

[ChooChooRon5683]

Thank you so much, Loco Bill!  I truly appreciate it!   :-)
I guess I still have a few questions for you and anyone else that may see this...unless you feel it might be better if I post somewhere else or create a new one for others to offer input.

1) I guess I'm still new enough at this I'm not sure the difference between what a coach and observations cars are and how the 2 differed in the EKJ series besides the 97271 missing the lit "drum head" photo of EKJ.
2) What is a "Road #"?
3) Any suggestions as to a good source(s) to keep searching for a 97271?
4) Also, any suggestions as to a good source(s) to keep searching for the later elephant car that went to mainly red with yellow trim?

Again, a huge THANK YOU!

ChooChooRon    :-)

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Ron,  

1. Visually the difference between the EKJ coach and observation can be seen by looking at the ends of the car.  Compare this picture of a coach with the EKJ Observation you already have.

click on this or paste this in your browser for a picture of a coach:   http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=6368  

A coach would be found in the middle of a train while an observation car would be found at the end of a train displaying the lit drumhead.  It also has the railing completely enclosing the end with the drumhead so passengers could walk out on the platform and "observe" the passing countryside.  A train might have many coaches but only one observation car at the rear.

2. A road number is the number painted to the side of a car to allow the railroad to identify it to those who needed to know.  A passenger might be told to board Coach number 4 as an example.

3& 4.  The best place is EBay and the best way is to set up a saved search and have Ebay email you when a matching item is found.  The red elephant car is more rare than the yellow one.   You will need to be patient since the coach is also harder to find as well.

Good Luck!!!

Loco Bill

[ChooChooRon5683]

Hi, Loco Bill!
Guess what?!  I found a coach car on ebay!  Simply put, it's now on its way!   :-)   I found it being sold by the same seller that I found the later release of the newly colored orange/yellow advertising car.  All I need now is the "red" elephant car and my collection is complete!  I'm so thrilled!  Now if only I owned a house & garage to REALLY set stuff up like all of you experts and connoisseurs, I'd be set.  My plan at the moment is to set up track around the perimeter of my living room for Christmas along with my complete collection of New Bright animated train pieces and even my Walthers brand of HO scale Christmas Zephyr set that's new in the box, still wrapped in its cellophane.    :-)   Needless to say I probably won't even have room to walk or maybe even my furniture, but I'm sure hoping it will look SO fun.  I live in Eugene, OR and I'm headed to my first ever model railroad swap meet, the 28th. Annual Willamette Cascade Model Railroad!  Are you familiar with it?  It's described as "One of the largest model railroad swap meets between San Francisco and the Canadian border. 22,000 square feet, including 250 vendor tables from nine different states."  I'm already in trouble because today was payday.  LOL!  I don't even know how a train swap meet works because I have several residual EKJ pieces I want to sell as well as some Lionel, LGB, and Bachmann track pieces and one or two of the New Bright animated train collection.  I guess I'll find out!  Who knows!  Maybe we'll run into each other!    :-)   I hope we stay in touch!!!......Ron

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Glad it all worked out!!