Objective discussion: Is Sound Value really a value?

[Steam is King]

Hey Y'all,

I've been sitting back in the wings watching the anticipated arrivals of the EM-1 and the Alco 2-6-0. I'm an avid proponent of Bachmann Spectrum Steamers. Bachmann has come a long way in producing quality steam and I am very grateful for their efforts. This is not a bash Bachmann thread by any stretch so don't even think of doing it. It's a discussion concerning the value of Sound Value in the market place when there is a down turn in the economy and Bachmann does what it needs to survive the present economic situation.

Now I'm not foolish enough to say Bachmann should do this or that. I'm not in their shoes and I can't fully see the other side of the story. I am wondering though if producing a "Sound Value" locomotive, albeit a good accounting response by the powers to be, is actually damaging the product line and having an ill affect on the overall consumer perception of Bachmann?

Bachmann decided to remove the 2-8-0 out of the Spectrum line and move it back to the Standard Line. This decision, which I and may still don't understand and agree with, opened the door for a few more decisions which, frankly don't make any sense. The permanent end of production of locomotives such as the Lt. 4-8-2, and the 4-6-0 variants is puzzling. No advertisements on the Baldwin 4-4-0 and its variants is puzzling. Ending the undecorated variants is puzzling. Now adding sound value without DCC is even more puzzling? Inconsistent wiring between locomotives so that Bachmann tenders aren't interchangeable and plug and play is puzzling. All the complaints, questions, disappointments, and quiet praises of the EM-1, S4, and 2-6-0 are puzzling. The Alco 2-6-0 has been out for some time and only one video on YOUTUBE? Many vendors are also NOT selling the sound value or even the Bachmann line anymore.

I'm perplexed where Bachmann Industries is going to go next. I am an avid supporter of them for putting out good quality steam. From a business aspect, from one business owner to another, when you scratch the surface of all the glitter and look inside the workings, why is Bachmann making the decisions it is making when they, according to the responses here,are not making what the consumer actually wants? Why is Bachmann not streamlining its product line to get the most out of its products, limiting choice of locomotives by permanently shelving successful models, or handicapping their line by limiting the use of their products, aka, tender fiasco.

I love Bachmann and will continue to support them. I just feel that some errant decisions over time have hurt Bachmann and the present course doesn't seem to have a plan, a purpose, or a focus, since it is evidently leaving the consumers with a whole lot of questions, and not enough praise.

Thanks Bachmann for what you do. I'm not bashing. Just giving a perspective. I'm here to learn and also here to help. Let's have an adult discussion.

Manny

[Patrick Durand]

Manny,

I see there have been a lot of lookers at your post regards the value of "Sound value", but no comments.

My comments will be more focused than your post but should address most of the questions you raise.

Specifically to "sound value".   I purchased three HO Alco Moguls mail order for $100.00 ea and sound was just a bonus.    I take the limitations of sound value or I spend another $100.00 and install a Tsunami.  It is what it is.

From a practical matter during operations when multiple locomotives are running "sound value" is all you would ever need to keep track of where your loco is.    I have dozens of locomotives with sound and when I am in an operations session I do not have time to study the manual for each decoder to make sure I push the right button on my DT400 to turn on the dynamics when going down grade.

All the bells and whistles are fun to program on the bench and play with DDE effects for show and tell .  When operating nothing sounds any better than two of those little moguls double heading and going in and out of sync.   Well really, three does sound better but only if you have them doing a scale 8 miles per hour, which they will do.    You cannot put together a triple header with sound anywhere else for $300.00.   So I thank Bachmann for the opportunity.



As to the local hobby shop not stocking Bachmann, well could that be they are tired of us beating them up over pricing when we can go to that tool place by email?


My only negative experience is not with Bachmann service, they  do a great job under pressure and in my experience have been more than generous with exchanges of defective units.  I do have an extensive inventory of ON30 locomotives in multiples.  My only fear is when I take them out of the boxes to run them in five years are all the gears going to be split?   If I have a complaint that is it.  Even if I buy replacement gears, am I to have faith they will be serviceable after a few years.   That issue needs to be solved in the chemistry lab and the engineers cad program.     Lotsa work and more than a few failed attempts at fixes.   Leaves room for NorthWest Short Line to market replacement gears.

We go through the same split gear routine with any P2k product you purchase second hand.   Athern gears solve that problem.

It is my hobby and I take it as it comes.   No ones life depends on the decisions we make here.

Pat Durand

[richg]

Manny

Is Sound Value really a value?

There are various levels of value.

I have to assume you have experience in running  a business and know what the market demand is like for a particular item.
Bachmann has a wide range of product and sells a lot of train stuff overseas that we here in the USA have no idea of.
Like I have said to others here, a company cannot please everyone.
No model railroad company can please everyone and I have been in model railroading nearly fifty years.
Bachmann products have come a long way.

Rich

[Jerrys HO]

My compliments to Patrick and Rich for the best answer to a question that answers itself. IT IS SOUND VALUE!
I personally do not have a lot of sound equipped loco's , but I am slowly working on them.
I think Bachmann done a wonderful job getting out sound value loco's for us that really don't know the difference.
Would I like to make them sound like the engine they belong to-yes, but it's like Patrick said just having it chuff or rumble down the tracks is great. The people who come over to see my layout have no clue what the real deal sounds like.
To Bachmann - keep up the good work and to those wanting the real deal spend a little more and get what ever sound tickles your fancy, but I don't want to pay more for sounds that really are not that important. Close count's in sound,horshoes, and hand grenades ....
For someone who has no sound this is a great value.

Jerry

[MilwaukeeRoadfan261]

I have the Spectrum line 63" driver 4-6-0 and basically the only sounds I use are the whistle, bell, side rod clank and steam hiss.I like the idea of engines with dcc and sound but don't have all they sounds of the tsunami decoders. I am looking forward to getting some of these new sound value engines. My dad keeps telling me I need small engines/ones with sound and the new ALCO 2-6-0 and S4 give me the perfect engines to look at getting and I don't dought that Bachmann will make them in more road names eventually. Maybe Bachmann will make even more standard line engines with this same dcc/sound setup and I hope they do. Like I said, on my sound equipped 4-6-0 from Bachmann Spectrum, I only use the whistle, bell, side rod clank and steam hiss. Heck all of the engines I have are Bachmann products and all still run great. I love bachmann engines and look forward to and welcome future releases from bachmann, whether they are big engines, medium engines or small engines with this same setup.

[jward]

is sound value a sound value?

from the perspective of this diesel modeller, the answer is a resounding yes!

first off, i've seen and heard sound locomotives on friend's layouts but never bought one. the sound decoders i could afford had either generic diesel sounds, or inappropriate sounds. as a lifelong railfan, i've spent alot of time around various emd, ge amd alco diesels, and i am aware of the individual characters of the various models. generic is not going to cut it for me.

the low price of the recent bachmann fa2 and s4 were enough to get me to buy them. i got the fa2 first, and was impressed with its accuracy. then yesterday my s4 arrived. they got the turbo right!!!! i've never heard an s4 model which sounded right, until now. brings back fond memories of the mckeesport connecting rr puttering around the steel mill with gondolas of pipe.

bachmann is to be thanked for putting such great and accurate sounding locomotives within reach of those of us on a budget. now if only we could get an sd45 with that distinctive 20 cylinder rumble.......

[Tom M.]

Jeff,

Well said.  My thoughts exactly on the diesel side of things.  During monthly operating sessions on my layout, I have very few operators who ever use the full range of sounds in my Tsunami equipped locos.  A handful will sometimes use the dynamic brake feature, but rarely the air compressor, brake squeal, or coupler clank.  Getting quality prime mover, horn, and bell sounds for 50% less money makes a lot of sense for a lot of people in these financially constrained times.  If someone isn't happy with the reduced sound set, then they still have the option to purchase the full-featured decoder and install it.

Tom

is sound value a sound value?

from the perspective of this diesel modeller, the answer is a resounding yes!

first off, i've seen and heard sound locomotives on friend's layouts but never bought one. the sound decoders i could afford had either generic diesel sounds, or inappropriate sounds. as a lifelong railfan, i've spent alot of time around various emd, ge amd alco diesels, and i am aware of the individual characters of the various models. generic is not going to cut it for me.

the low price of the recent bachmann fa2 and s4 were enough to get me to buy them. i got the fa2 first, and was impressed with its accuracy. then yesterday my s4 arrived. they got the turbo right!!!! i've never heard an s4 model which sounded right, until now. brings back fond memories of the mckeesport connecting rr puttering around the steel mill with gondolas of pipe.

bachmann is to be thanked for putting such great and accurate sounding locomotives within reach of those of us on a budget. now if only we could get an sd45 with that distinctive 20 cylinder rumble.......

[Bucksco]

I would like to address a couple of statements made in the initial posting of this thread.

None of the locomotives in the Bachmann line have been "permenantly" put out of production. As long as the tooling exists (and it does) there is always the opportunity for us to reissue the model. The decision to reissue a model is based on the sales of said item and how long it took to sell them.

Undecorated versions - believe it or not they do not sell very well. We usually end up storing them in the warehouse and eventually have to sell them at a discounted price. This causes us to be very careful about issuing Undecorated locos these days.

The "Sound Value" locomotives DO feature DCC.

In regard to moving locomotives from the Spectrum line to the standard line it is a matter of moving older items that are no longer up to the level of detail expected for a Spectrum item into the standard line. This helps improve our entry level items and make room for more new Spectrum locos.

The ultimate goal is to provide the consumer with a high quality product at a reasonable price.

[jward]

ym,

i think you've done a good job of high at a reasonable price. this from somebody who, in the 1980s, wouldn't touch a bachmann locomotive if it was given to me. the quality improvement since then has been phenominal, and now bachmann diesels make up the majority of my fleet. and now sound equipped diesels for the same price as others non dcc locomotives? keep it up......