Damaged but Surviving Gorre & Daphetid Locomotives

[Geared Steam]

this thread has just gone beyond hopeful discussion for me.... diesels......

Never happened on the G&D, only in Varney ads. One pic John took shows a group hanging a diesel salesman from the trestle. The G & D was steam all the way!

[J3a-614]

"Anyway it is lettered Rockande Mtn #502.  Now it may be a visiting locomotive.  Anyway it was in with pictures of the G&D locomotives."--RAM

Any chance there is a link or something to this photo that the rest of us can check out?

[ryeguyisme]

definitely not one of his engines but it is a diesel running on the layout -__-

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I suppose this is OT, but since it concerns the G&D I'll report here that I'm absolutely tickled that I finally managed to score a couple of the Roundhouse G&D "tribute" kits, an Overton combine and a drover's caboose. I'm looking forward to their arrival.

[Geared Steam]

I suppose this is OT, but since it concerns the G&D I'll report here that I'm absolutely tickled that I finally managed to score a couple of the Roundhouse G&D "tribute" kits, an Overton combine and a drover's caboose. I'm looking forward to their arrival.

[J3a-614]

Well, back to the steam era. . .

Below is a link to what must be a partial roster of the G&D, from a website that is apparently more on computer games with this line than anything else (it also seems to have photos that are not available elsewhere):

http://homepage.mac.com/doug56/G&D/page118.html

Going from the information above and other photos and memories (and I've got to get Wescott's book one of these days), the roster that I can put together looks something like this (corrections welcomed, of course):

1.        4-2-0   Scratchbuilt, not powered, museum piece
2.        4-4-0   Mantua General?
3.                    Did Allen have a No. 3?
4.         4-4-0   PFM V&T Reno?
5.                     Did Allen have a No. 5?
6.         0-4-4-0 Heisler, 2-truck
7.         0-4-4-0 Shay, 2-truck
8.         4-4-0    Sargent Ennis (Mantua Belle of the Eighties)
9, 10.   0-4-0T  Docksides, Varney, B&O prototype
11.                   Did Allen have a No. 11?
12.       0-6-0    MDC-Roundhouse, SP prototype
13.                    Emma the dinosaur
14.                    Railcar
15.        0-8-0    USRA, Akane?
16--24               Did Allen have any engines in these numbers?
25.         2-6-0   Freelanced, based on MDC 0-6-0
26.         2-8-0   Looks to be UP prototype, PFM?
27.         2-8-0   Looks to be AT&SF prototype, PFM 1951 class?
28.         2-8-0   Looks to be AT&SF prototype, but doesn't quite look like the 27.
29.         2-8-0   Looks to be B&O prototype, PFM E-27
30-33                 Did Allen have any engines in these numbers?
34.         4-10-0  Homebuilt job, Mantua drivers, Varney 2-8-0 boiler, etc.
35.       0-6-6-0   Modified PFM Sierra 38 2-6-6-2
36.       2-6-6-2   Don't know what this was, but it could be a Sierra 2-6-6-2
37.       2-6-6-2   Great Northern prototype, but who made it?
38.       2-6-6-2   PFM Sierra 38
39.       2-6-6-2   PFM (?) C&O H-6 (1949 prototype, based on 1910 design)
40.       2-8-2      AT&SF prototype, but who made it?
41.                     Did Allen have a No. 41?
42.       2-8-2      Mantua engine; modified to look like a C&O K-3?
43.       2-8-4      AT&SF prototype, PFM, may have been Allen's last purchase
44.                     Did Allen have a No. 44?
45.       2-8-4      Plastic NKP engine, modified to look like C&O (low headlight-listed as a 2-8-2 on the above site)
46-47                 Did Allen have engines in these numbers?
48.       4-6-0      Canadian Pacific prototype; who made it?
49.       4-6-0      Modified Varney "Old Lady," SP prototype
50.       4-6-2      Heavily modified Varney 4-6-2, basic model based on SP prototype
51-55                 Did Allen have any engines in this series?
56.       4-6-2      Bowser, NYC K-11 prototype, mated to ATSF tender
57-59                 Did Allen have any engines in this series?
60.       B-2         Doodlebug, homemade, perhaps representing a conversion
101.     4-6-4      A high-stepper on the G&D?

What's intriguing to me are the gaps, most notably the number series between 30 and 33, and 51-55.  I picture 30-33 as being additional 4-10-0s, and that this was a custom order for the G&D from about 1920 to provide a heavy locomotive that could run on light rail.  Nos. 51-55 would be other 4-6-2s, in two classes; 51 and 52 would be duplicates of No. 50, and in the prototype world, would not be considered the best locomotives due to poor steaming (firebox too small, Allen modified No. 50 to resemble such an older engine).  Nos. 53-56 were based on a successful NYC 4-6-2 design that was actually a fast freight engine on that road, and would have been similar in performance to other freight 4-6-2s used on the Lehigh Valley and the Lackawanna, and would also be similar in proportions and performance to mountain passenger 4-6-2s built for the Virginian Railway and the Western Maryland.

Other possible gap-fillers would be No. 3 (another 4-4-0), No. 11 (possibly another MDC 0-6-0), No. 5 (another 4-4-0 or another geared engine--these could also be locomotives that had been retired by the 1950s setting of the classic G&D), and Nos. 46 and 47 being additional 4-6-0s.

This brings up a question I suggested before--What would a backdated G&D look like, set in the prewar era or even back to the 1920s?  What other engines would be on the roster then that would have been "retired" before the 1950s era?

[ryeguyisme]

Through extensive research I had created a database online on John's Locomotives from the book and additional discoveries were added:


1   2-2-0   Stombecker   Named Charles Rush, no motor

2   4-2-0   scratch-built   Named CD Grandt, had a motorized gondola

4   4-4-0   Mantua   Mantua General   

6      Heisler     United Brass logging and switching

7   Shay   PFM/United   logging and switching   

8   4-4-0   Mantua   Mantua Belle of the '80s, named the Sargeant Ennis

9   0-4-0T   Varney   first actual G&D loco, Varney lil' Joe   

10   0-4-0T   Sakura, diecast boiler

12   0-6-0   MDC   Great Divide switcher   MDC 0-6-0 repl.   

13   organic switcher   n/a   Emma the stegosaurus

14   railcar   scratch-built   The President's Car. H.D. Vanderlip's personal touring car   PSC 1907 Thomas Flyer

15   0-8-0   Tenshodo USRA 0-8-0 brass kit   MOW, switching "Renumbered from or to #5"

25   2-6-0   MDC   orig. 0-6-0, mod into 2-6-0 with scratch-built tender

26   2-8-0   PFM/United   UP prototype with a short tender   

27   2-8-0   PFM/United   AT&SF class 1950 prototype, had Varney tender with Franklin booster   

28   2-8-0   PFM/United   AT&SF class 1950 prototype   

29   2-8-0   United brass   B&O E-27ca prototype   

34   4-10-0   kitbash   Varney Reading 2-8-0 boiler, Varney Casey Jones cylinders & pilot, Mantua General pilot truck & wheels, Varney modified tender

35   0-6-6-0   PFM/Unitied   Sierra 2-6-6-2 prototype   

36   2-6-6-2   custom built??   helper engine

37   2-6-6-2   M. B. Austin   GN L-1 prototype   

38   2-6-6-2   PFM/United   Sierra 2-6-6-2 prototype   

39   2-6-6-2   PFM/United   C&O H-6 prototype   

40   2-8-2   PFM/United   AT&SF prototype   

42   2-8-2   Mantua   Mantua heavy mike, HObbyline berkshire parts   

43   2-8-4   PFM/United   AT&SF prototype (The Book says 2-10-2)

45   2-8-4   John English and Sims Lab mechanism   NKP Berkshire   

48   4-6-0   Van Hobbies/United   CP D-10 prototype, green boiler   

49   4-6-0   Varney & PFM/United   Varney Casey Jones, PFM/United UP 2-8-0 brass tender   

50   4-6-2   Varney   Varney Economy Pacific, Bowser tender   

56   4-6-2   Bowser   Bowser NYC K-3 (or K-11?), PFM/United AT&SF 2-8-0 class 1950 tender   

60   gas-electric   scatchbuilt   

101   4-6-4   A.C. Gilbert   A. C. Gilbert 4-6-4, Rock Island tender   BLI 4-6-4



#11 is just a freelanced MDC replica, john hadn't an 11

[J3a-614]

Thanks for the additional information, Rye; your comments about No. 101 allows me to identify it as the third "unit" from the top in the linked photo below, beneath a tank engine with a diamond stack and a Bowser Brill trolley:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_006_const_july56-orig.html

There is another engine I can't identify; it is the furthest to the right in this photo, next to a curving main line.  It's the tank engine mentioned above with a diamond stack, and is notable in that it has a saddle tank (wraps around the boiler), but the top of the tank is flat (suggesting an older prototype), and the engine appears to have a peaked cab roof, also typical of older locomotives (i.e., No. 8, the Sargent Ennis).

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_012_const_july57-orig.html

A slightly different angle:

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_01/slides/s1_007_const_july57-orig.html

This is interesting--a tiny, European-looking narrow gauge tank engine, on a pedestal, apparently a preserved industrial locomotive; it's lined up above and behind No. 28's stack and a bulldozer in this photo.  Wonder what the story behind that one is?

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_00/slides/s0_079_westwardho28_feb70-orig.html

This is interesting, several trolleys that do not look like the one Allen used for the Cooper electric line, and some orange traction motors (lower right corner).  Visiting equipment?

http://www.gdlines.com/GD_Galleries/The_Slides/Set_02/slides/s2_014_cablecar_july59-orig.html

The "V&T"-looking 4-4-0 (Reno, straight stack) shows up in this photo, at the left in the photo at Angels Camp, just to the left of a long drovers' caboose, another visitor?

http://homepage.mac.com/doug56/G&D/page8.html

Have fun.

[RAM]

One thing I noticed, John did not spend money on new lumber for his branch work.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I suppose this is OT, but since it concerns the G&D I'll report here that I'm absolutely tickled that I finally managed to score a couple of the Roundhouse G&D "tribute" kits, an Overton combine and a drover's caboose. I'm looking forward to their arrival.

I've seen eBay listings for the ventilated boxcar, too. The combine and the drover's caboose arrived on Friday. I'm hoping some day I'll be able to get a coach to match with the combine. 

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

13   organic switcher   n/a   Emma the stegosaurus

Ya think Bachmann could make a Spectrum version?   

[ryeguyisme]

One thing I noticed, John did not spend money on new lumber for his branch work.

John never bought anything he could make himself most of the time, I wouldn't be surprised if his benchwork was mostly broken down wooden pallets, those boards can have good pine in em

[J3a-614]

While looking for something else, I ran into this, a nice photo of Rayonier 38, formerly of the Sierra Railway, as it looked some years later.  This is the prototype of the model John Allen used for his own No. 38:

http://loggingmallets.railfan.net/list/wt4/rayon38meh.jpg

This is really a logging Mallet, built by Baldwin, and late, too, like around 1930 or so.

[GRZ]

 there is a wonderfull spread in the 1969 issue of model railroader mag, on the G&P wish i could have seen that layout in person. my issue is all but worn out from drooling over it. Greg.

[RAM]

I never got to see John's layout either.  I did get to see him one time and spent the day on a fan trip.  That was about 6 months after I lost my wife first wife, and going on a fan trip with three small children.  Needles to say I did not have any time to visit with John.  John had a wonderful layout.  One thing that John did was open the door for others.  To day we have many layouts that are as good, if not better than John's.