DCC Crossover Problems

[KJ Rails]

I have two #6 DCC crossovers (one left, one right) on my layout which is essentially an inner loop and an outer loop connected by the crossovers. I use an E-Z Command Controller to run two trains and control the crossovers. When I power up the E-Z Command and test the crossovers they both work fine and will toggle back and forth.  The problem arises when I exit the turnout control mode and start operating the trains.  When I go back into turnout mode, only one of the crossovers responds. The other one (the right one if it helps or matters) does not respond. The only fix I've figured out is to press the stop button to bring everything to a halt and then press it again to start everything back up. That seems to reset things because when I go back into the turnout control mode both crossovers will work again. However once I exit turnout mode and then reenter it the right crossover stops working again.  I'm at a loss. Could I be temporarily shorting out the crossover? It initially works so I don't think it's defective but then again I really don't know.
I'm a newbie so I apologize if this is very basic stuff but at the same time I kind of hope it is as hopefully that means it'll be a quick fix. I searched the forum to see if anyone has encountered this problem but didn't see a similar post.
Thanks in advance for your help.

[Doneldon]

KJ-

Those switch electromagnetic motors want a lot of juice, especially if you're trying to throw both switches in the crossover at the same time.  You do have some options.  One is to use a separate address for each switch machine and throw both switches every time you want to travel over the crossover.  I know that's rinky-dink because there is no reason on earth to throw only one switch since you must always throw both for either straight through or over the crossover.  But you might try it.  Second, you could use a capacitive discharge system for your switch machines.  This essentially stores up some electricity for a moment and then lets it go all at once, thus providing enough power to throw both turnouts.  This would be "downstream" from your controller so you won't have to worry about it messing up your trains.  It won't overload your switch machines, either.  In fact, it will be better for them than holding your finger on the momentary contact switch in hopes of seeing the switch change itself.

Miniatronix has a unit and some other model train electronics outfits do, too.  You can find plans online and build your own with parts from Radio Shack.  There is a place in Australia -- the name escapes me now -- which sells a kit with a printed circuit board and everything.  Fast delivery, too, less than a week!  Maybe another member of this board will recall the name.  I've mentioned it before on here but I just can't get it out of the vault right now.
                                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[KJ Rails]

Thanks Doneldon! It is indeed a power issue. I replaced one of the DCC trains with an older DC train and both sets of crossovers worked the whole time I was running the trains. I will look into a capacitive discharge system. Is that something that a newbie like myself would be able to install without too much difficulty? I like the idea of setting up toggle switches to operate the crossovers instead of the three step process of using the E-Z Command.

Also, would adding a power booster also fix the problem?

Thanks again for your help.

KJ

[Joe323]

Thanks Doneldon! It is indeed a power issue. I replaced one of the DCC trains with an older DC train and both sets of crossovers worked the whole time I was running the trains. I will look into a capacitive discharge system. Is that something that a newbie like myself would be able to install without too much difficulty? I like the idea of setting up toggle switches to operate the crossovers instead of the three step process of using the E-Z Command.

Also, would adding a power booster also fix the problem?

Thanks again for your help.


OK I'm confused by this thread:

Seems to me that you would have to replace the DCC turnouts with analog turnouts, if you wanted to use toggle switches.and a capacitive discharge system.  You would have to wire them separately to the AC terminals of an analog power pack  (say an old train set power pack).

I'm not sure but I think based on what you are saying a DCC booster might help.  My question is though if you stopped all the trains before you threw the turnouts would that not leave enough power to throw the turnouts?  Adding a DCC booster is a tad costly.  I believe the Bachmann 5amp booster is like $200.

[richd286]

The Bachmann #6 switches may have powered frogs so an engine will stop if it enters a closed switch.   So depending which way they are thrown one switch my not be getting the signal.  Do you use only one terminal track connection to feed both loops? I have read that depending solely on the rail joiners can be problematic.   If you can run a lead from the other side of the terminal track connection to the other loop ( use aligator clips to test it), you may find that this will ensure a uniform power distribution.

I have the single unit crossover tracks and they work fine.  I do plan to use back to back #6 in an expansion and I will be on the lookout for your situation.

[Doneldon]

Yes, a more powerful booster will likely resolve the problem of two turnouts not throwing simultaneously.  Bachmann's pre-fab crossovers would also solve the problem, I'm pretty sure, but at considerable cost per crossover.  A CD system can operate all turnouts on a pike simultaneously, up to ten lined together.

The best information I've found is at          http://talkingelectronics.com/          which is the place I couldn't recall yesterday.  It would be necessary to run the CD crossovers with non-DCC controls.  However, you wouldn't use toggles as they would burn out the point motors (solenoids).  Instead, use the momentary contact switches which come with the turnouts.  Then you have pre-fab wiring and switches, other than installing the CD board (like it's a big deal -- maybe two inches square) upstream from the switches.  Note that the older, smaller switches must be released to break contact; the newer larger ones just make contact while the switch is moved from one side to the other.  Also, by "switch" I mean the electrical control device only.  I'm using the term "turnout" to refer to the track components which direct the trains to change tracks.  I know everybody knows this distinction but I want to make sure that you know what I intend to say.
                                                                                                                                                                       -- D

[KJ Rails]

Thank you all for your input. Sounds like I have a couple options. The Bachmann 5amp booster is indeed around $200 so i wouldn't mind avoiding that option, if possible. I do only use one terminal track connection for both loops. I didn't know using more than one was an option. I thought that would cause a short. I'll get a hold of some alligator clips and give it a try.

I  have a couple older power packs so I will keep the option of converting the crossovers to non DCC in the back of my mind. It seems a little daunting for me but would probably be a good learning exercise and would give me some experience with wiring and switches and what not. And I'd have that website as a guide.

Thanks again.

[richd286]

As always maintaining polarity is a requirement.  So be aware of the +/- in any power distribution set up.

This web site has a lot of good DCC info.
 
http://dccconcepts.com/index_files/DCCwiringpower.htm