Beginner Help Needed - Track Planning

[jonathan]

Chuck,

Congratulations on the Varney Dockside find.  If you ever have a spare eight months of time laying around, it's a great little project.

Sounds to me like a good option for you is to start out DC with the Thomas layout.  If you do a thourough job on the wiring (soldering feeders and the like), it will be a simple job to switch to DCC when you're ready.  You won't be spending as many dollars either.  I like that part.

If you intend to have all five loops going at once (I know I would), you will probably need more than one power pack (transformer).  MRC makes dual packs with two controllers built into one unit (Tech4 MRC280 I think).  Each side of the transformer has enough umph (tech term) to push two locomotives easily.  So you could power up to four loops with one dual pack.

Remember, it's your railroad.  There is no one right answer.  These ideas are merely food for thought.

Regards,

Jonathan

[napa15]

Thanks, I'm definitely going with the Nickel Silver. Everything I've read leads me to that direction.

I think I'll just go the DC route for now and make sure I get enough feeder wires. How far apart should they be, every 24" - 36" or so? I do think I have enough transformers to run the 5 loops, I have two that have dual controls on them and the one that came with the Thomas & Clarabel set I bought my son (that got this Sodor Island thing started). That doesn't leave me any poser for the turn outs and other stuff, so I'll need at least one more. This make sense. Oh, and I don't plan on messing with my Varney Dockside engine (except adding some knuckle couples). It's actually in very good shape.

[jonathan]

I've gone as far apart as 12 feet on feeders.  When I felt less confident, I've put a feeder on every track joint (overkill).  Most folks seem to hover in the 3 - 6 foot range.

On the loops you're planning, I would put at least two pairs of feeders on every loop.  Then I would solder the track joints ONLY if I wasn't getting good current flow.  But that's me.

I started a thread on track feeders, recentlly.  http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13162.0.html
There are many ways to do it.  Mine is not the best by any means.  Just an idea...

Regards,

Jonathan

[Doneldon]

napa -

I second your decision to go with DC for this layout now that I've seen the diagrams.  DCC would offer you very little.  You can purchase proprietary sound controllers if you wind up with sound locos.  Two or three of those will cost a lot less than a DCC system.

On a layout like this I'd run two or three feeders to each loop and separate feeders to the sidings on the lower level.  That way you don't have to worry about the rails powering the sidings or mess with relays.  On the other hand, you might want to switch the electricity to those sidings on and off so you can store locos there while running another on the connected loop.  That will require insulating the sidings and running switched feeder wires from your control panel to each.

Your power packs will have accessory terminals you can use to operate switches, lights and such-like.

Stick with the N-S track.  Steel has too many problems, in most particular, rust.

I must say that I don't know how long you'll continue to enjoy just watching trains run around in circles, even if there are five circles.  If you use EZ Track you'll find it stays together very well so you won't have to glue everything down.  (You will want to tack it in a few places, however, possibly a dab of plastic-safe construction adhesive here and there and probably two at each switch.  The easy removal will be a plus if you decide to use this track for a follow-on layout.
                                                                                        -- D

[napa15]

Thanks for the feeder wire info, that will certainly help a lot. The feeder wire(s), that's obviously what comes from the transformer.. right? If so, do you just run one long wire and attach the feeder wires to that? (Or, one wire per rail +/- I should say) What minimum gauge wire should the feeder wire be?

Next question, about the EZ Track.. I've seen where people say that the EZ Track turn outs are unreliable and have frequent problems. Is this correct? Am I going to need to worry about frequent derailing or power problems with them?

As for them being simple ovals, with the likely-hood of becoming boring.. yes, I agree. BUT, this layout is not for me.. it's for my kids. And like I said in my previous post, the fact that they can run their own trains on the same layout is a huge deal for me. And, this is hopefully going to be a real big family involved project. I'm greatly excited about the fact that I will be working on it WITH my kids, and wife hopefully. With that said, it very well may not be picture perfect, which is OK by me.

I'm still trying to figure out the correct track diameter size to use on the lower level inner loop closest to the dock. For some reason I just can't make the 18 radius work. Maybe it's 15 radius?

[ABC]

General Comment: 15" radius is very limiting and is too sharp for most equipment, but I'm not really sure how this applies to Thomas locos, but 2 and 3 axle locos are probably okay and most shorter rolling stock.

[jonathan]

Someone else will have to chime in on proper wire gage, I'm afraid.  I play a little fast and loose with gages for the bus wires (the ones coming off the transformer) and the feeder wires.

I tend to use scrap ethernet wire for feeders, because I have access to a lot of old wiring that is being tossed out when computer systems are upgraded.  I use old mouse wire for the insides of locomotives, tenders and cabeese).  Some nice folks let me rummage before the stuff goes to the dumpster (or wherever old PC stuff goes when no one wants it anymore).    I believe, every day, all over the world, miles of wire end up in the trash simply because it appears more efficient to replace everything all at once.  Heck, I found a lot of unused wire right at home.  Seems we have to get a new PC every few years, whether I like it or not.  Think of all the old mice, cables, etc that are probably sitting in your desk right now.   Give it a new life on your layout!  Sorry i just saw Toy Story 3. 

I'll get back in my box now.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Doneldon]

napa -

I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer.

The wires coming from your power pack should be fairly robust -- 14 or 16 ga on a small pike like yours.  The feeders are the short wires that run from these bus wires under the train table to the rails.  These can be very small -- maybe 22 or 24 ga -- because they are only a few inches long.  Be sure to maintain polarity.  That is, connect one of the power bus wires to the inside rail and the other to the outside rail.  I'd check after wiring each loop to make sure things are okay.

I've had good luck with EZ switches.  They will bind if there is any odd pressure on them like grade changes or something between them and the surface to which they are attached.

                                                                         -- D

[Joe323]

Ok Just my 2 cents on this.  If you want the kids to be able to run separate loops then by all means wire them seperately with DC, as it sounds like DCC will not be needed yet.  Definately go with nickel silver track in the long run its better though I still have some steel track and its doing fine.

Like I said just my 2 cents. 

[napa15]

Sweet. Great info. I happen to be able to get my hands on a lot of spare ethernet cable as well. I'm in good with our IT guy. 

I will make sure all my polarity is correct before running any locos.

I will not be using any 15 degree radius for the lower layout, as I know it's the wrong size (even if I asked it earlier). The locos that will go there can't use it. I'll figure out what I did wrong on my planning and the inner loop will have 18 degree.

All my track will be level, so hopefully no turn our issues. Have decided DC - no DCC. And will certainly be using Nickel Silver track.

BTW Jonathan.. saw Toy Story 3 this weekend as well. My son turned 4 the week prior and we did his birthday party at our local theater and watched that movie. Not very fun though when you have a party like that and have to pay for every kid that shows up.. 15 kids at $12.xx a pop.. good grief!  That being said everyone had a great time and the movie was great. What a great ending to a movie series, even it was only a trilogy.

[Kris Everett]

this is a really cool topic you have going im glad that a lot of people Enjoy this hobby. better this than breaking into houses.



TB16

[Doneldon]

napa -

I'll bet you can use the ethernet cable for your power buses as well as feeders if you don't mind removing the insulation from all of those wires and twisting them together.  That would give you great ampacity.  If you do that, you could just split off one or two of the wires to serve as the feeders.  You wouldn't even need to cut them.  Use two colors of cables or mark one with markers, paint or nail polish.  Markers are easiest; paint is okay but it takes it a while to dry.

TB16 -

What do you mean housebreaking?  I haven't done that in years.  And it was my own house.  Of course that didn't stop the local constabulary from confronting me with drawn weapons.  They figured out that I was a good guy when I pointed out that I was trying to break in by carefully removing a pane of glass intact to simplify the repair, rather than just smashing it.  It was funny, though, when they asked if I had any ID and I had to tell them it was in the house.
                                                                                         -- D

[Kris Everett]

im just saying it's better doing this as a hobby than breaking into houses cause this wont get you in trouble with the cops


TB16

[Kris Everett]

im board tonite nothing to do!

[napa15]

You're "board" - or "bored"?