Forney issues

[lvrr325]

My Forney is dead, for no apparent reason, when trying to run it with standard DC power.  Was debating about pulling the DCC plug and putting a dummy in and see what that does. 

Also, I picked up a deal on another one, but it's a wood cab.  Any ideas where to look for someone who might want to trade even for a steel cab?

[lvrr325]

And by dead I mean just that.  Nothing happens when you apply power, but if I put another loco on the same track it runs fine, like the Forney isn't even there.  Well, until it gets to where the Forney is parked.  I'm not even sure what to check, I could pull out a voltmeter and maybe probe and see if it's getting power at the circuit board in the tender, but I didn't want to probe blindly -

[NarrowMinded]

Did it run on DC before? If you never tried you likely need to change the cv to run on DC I beleive they come default "stop" on DC. Does the light come on? 

NM

[lvrr325]

Zip, zero, nada, no light no matter how far I turn the dial.

The engine did get programmed to a different address using an early MRC Prodigy system, which now isn't working, but I had someone tell me that it should still run on regular DC.  I had assumed that somewhere in running it on DCC I'd changed something that prevented it from running without the right signal going to it.

I would think if that's the case, that if I follow the directions for a dummy plug, it should run on DC like any other DCC-ready loco, and when I get the Prodigy repaired or replaced, I could just plug the decoder back in and go.  But it's out of warranty so I don't want to mess it up -

[lvrr325]

I recently found a deal on a second Forney and it came today.  Switching the decoder from it to the non-operational one, it worked fine.  This tells me I apparently have the decoder programmed in a way that it won't run on standard DC. 

[ebtbob]

CV 29 is the CV to try changing to allow DC ops.   Give a value of 0

[lvrr325]

Thanks, but I currently have no functional DCC control.  Sent it out for repair today -


Meanwhile, the warranty department was of zero help trying to get a couple pieces to repair the second Forney properly.  Even though the locomotive is brand new, apparently unless you buy it from just the right eBay seller, they treat it as used and you have to pay to have it serviced.  I began to think I was dealing with The Favorite Spot's (complete lack of) customer service.  The person I dealt with had the gaul to say that if you buy your Bachmann product in a clearance sale, they won't honor the warranty then either.  Says nothing about this in the paperwork, so it wouldn't hold up in court, but who's going to sue them over that? 

What I learned is when I have a warranty issue with a Bachmann product, I would most likely need to lie about where and when I purchased the item if I want them to stand behind it.


So if anyone has an extra Type B headlight, I could use one, have several oil lights and Type A's I could swap.  In fact it would be nice to get about three of them so I could put them on the tender also.  I don't know what I'll do about the broken cylinder saddle, I guess live with it, since they aren't listed seperately.

[NarrowMinded]

It does not matter who you buy your bachmann trains from If you have the warranty card you can get service under warranty. The service department needs a receipt OR the warranty card. That is how the policy reads so they must stand by it.

NM

[lvrr325]

You would think that, but I emailed the service person a copy of the PayPal reciept, probably the mistake was in including a link to the auction listing too.  They don't like my eBay seller, is what it boils down to.  And someone goofed up at that seller too, somewhere along the line there must have been an inside frame and an outside frame side by side that got put away in each other's boxes - that's why I have no "B" headlight, it comes installed on the inside frame.  But the engine had no wheel wear at all, and it's common to take something out of the box in a store so people can see it.   

It seems hard to believe, but my guess is Bachmann was losing too much money on warranty stuff with the lifetime warranty, which is why they went to the one year warranty.  Okay, fine, but is it so bad they have to be this tight and specific about it?     We're talking like $5 cost worth of parts here and I'll fix it myself, it's not like I magically expected a complete new locomotive to show up in the mail, or even expected them to fix it for me. 

[NarrowMinded]

Well I am glad I have been lucky I have 14 bachmann steam engines 8 on30 6 G scale all great, well except for some wobbly wheels... For the life of me I don't understand how they can't get the wheels on straight!

NM

[railtwister]

Thanks, but I currently have no functional DCC control.  Sent it out for repair today -

Sometimes, it's smarter or cheaper to fix it yourself, regardless of warranties. In this case, you could have installed a new decoder of your choice, some of which are available for as little as $16.00 (street price). Replacing the factory installed Bachmann decoder with a better quality decoder wouldn't be too hard to do, and by the time you figure the cost of shipping the loco to Bachmann, along with their "service charge", it probably would have been cheaper, too.

Still, having a problem getting service as described by the terms of the warranty paperwork, is pretty frustrating. It used to be that Bachmann had a reputation for poor quality control, but their warranty service was unbeatable. Apparently, while their products may now be somewhat better, their warranty support is not as good as it used to be. Sorry to hear of your problem.

Regards,
Bill

[lvrr325]

Why would I replace the decoder when I have no means to control it?  I sent that out to it's manufacturer (MRC) for repair this week.  Swapping decoders between the old Forney and the new one revealed it works fine, the decoder is just programmed such that it won't run without a controller set to address it properly. 


But to find that out I had to buy a second locomotive that I happened to find by coincedence on eBay, and that locomotive got some damage in transit to me.  All I wanted was a new cylinder saddle assembly, and possibly a new headlight, one to repair a broken part and one since I simply have none. 

The warranty department, in essence, told me to eat it - nothing but excuses because they want $30 out of me so they can fix something I can swap out in five or ten minutes myself.   

[railtwister]

Why would I replace the decoder when I have no means to control it?  I sent that out to it's manufacturer (MRC) for repair this week.  Swapping decoders between the old Forney and the new one revealed it works fine, the decoder is just programmed such that it won't run without a controller set to address it properly. 


But to find that out I had to buy a second locomotive that I happened to find by coincidence on eBay, and that locomotive got some damage in transit to me.  All I wanted was a new cylinder saddle assembly, and possibly a new headlight, one to repair a broken part and one since I simply have none. 

The warranty department, in essence, told me to eat it - nothing but excuses because they want $30 out of me so they can fix something I can swap out in five or ten minutes myself.   

From re-reading through your posts, it sounds like you purchased your loco from the Favorite Spot, and have all the paperwork supporting the sale, yet Bachmann is trying to treat the warranty issue like you purchased a used locomotive. Is this basically correct? If so, have you notified Ray Cozza at The Favorite Spot of this attitude at Bachmann regarding items purchased from him? Understand that at the prices he gets on eBay (sometimes well below dealer cost), he can't afford to handle returns or repairs, especially since that is what Bachmann's warranty department is there for. But, he is a very large wholesale customer for Bachmann, and I'm sure hearing news like this will not make him happy. Perhaps both you and he need to contact a higher-up at Bachmann, and see if this can't be worked out. Clearly, this sounds like a problem that Bachmann needs to look into.

The cylinder saddles breaking on these things during shipment were a known problem from the very beginning and Bachmann was replacing the locos, since the damage was thought to be caused by lack of proper support from the packaging. It's quite possible that the loco you got had been opened for the purpose of taking the photos for eBay, and that is how the boxes got mixed up. If so, that should not make it a used locomotive from Bachmann's perspective, especially when there was so much on the newsgroups about the broken cylinder problem.

One of our clubmembers got a Forney with a broken cylinder when they were first released by Bachmann a couple of years ago. He was going to return it to them, but ended up gluing back together himself (I think he used some CA, perhaps Dr. Mike's) rather than hassle with shipments back and forth. It seemed to work just fine.

I hope you receive some resolution to your problem.

Good luck,
Bill 

[lvrr325]

Uh, no, I bought it from someone else as The Favorite Spot is apparently not interested in my business.  I made the mistake of asking them a question some time back (I asked if they could run a particular catalog number in an auction format listing) and after a very rude response found myself blocked from bidding at all.  Which makes me unsure I'd want to buy anything from these people - if they treat you like dirt for asking a question, they're going to be complete jerks when there's a real problem like a non-op loco or the wrong item gets shipped.  Inquiries since asking about the block have been ignored.   I would highly suggest avoiding doing business with those people.  They apparently feel they sell enough they're above having customer service. 


This is why I said apparently some eBay sellers are more equal than others, apparently they only warranty the stuff from the big money buyer.  Then again they probably have to, because I'm sure TFS will tell you to pound sand anyways. 



I guess I'll spell this out from the beginning again just to be clear:

The Forney I bought about three years ago did not operate; this would be Forney #1.   

Last week I jumped on an eBay auction for Forney #2 simply because it was a good deal.

Using the decoder from Forney #2 installed in Forney #1 I determined that decoder #1 is programmed such that it won't operate on regular DC.  Problem solved. 

So I sent out my damaged DCC control for repair.

In the meantime, Forney #2 arrived in the wrong box and with the cylinder saddle broken.  New Problem. 

Since the engine was new in box with no signs of use, I contacted Bachmann to see if they could supply me with the repair part for it rather than send it in.  I provided a copy of my reciept and a link to the eBay auction.  I figured it would be cheaper for them to let me repair the engine, plus it wouldn't risk further damage to it sending it back.  I never contacted my eBay seller about the problem. 

After multiple emails with Bachmann's warranty department I was told that because they didn't like the seller I purchased from, the only way to get it repaired would be for me to send it in with the $30 fee, they refused to send me the replacement part to repair it or to send the headlight I didn't get because the loco was boxed incorrectly. 


In the course of the emails the woman from the warranty department stated that Bachmann won't warranty items sold via a clearance sale.  (yet they'll honor it on The Favorite Spot's fire sale auctions??)  This isn't stated in the paperwork and it's unlikely it would hold up in court, but of course it's unlikely anyone would sue them since it would cost more to go to court than it's worth.  My response was to point out that it's not my problem they wholesale to someone (The Favorite Spot) who retails from that price, so that other hobby sellers can't compete and eventually take the items collecting dust on their shelves, eBay them to recover some of their investment, and write off the loss.

So what I've learned from this experience is if I wish Bachmann to honor their warranty, I need to lie about where and when I purchase Bachmann products such that it will convince them the item is covered by their standards.  I used to have my own store; I have a cash register left; a phony receipt is not a big deal, but it disgusts me that I should have to go to such a length particularly now that I find out this is a known problem at Bachmann. 

It's tempting me to put all this stuff up for sale on eBay and dump the On30 idea entirely, between the jerks selling it and the company that won't stand behind it, it's not very much fun.  Which is why most of it has been put up for about two years in the first place.

[railtwister]

>>>snip<<<
It's tempting me to put all this stuff up for sale on eBay and dump the On30 idea entirely, between the jerks selling it and the company that won't stand behind it, it's not very much fun.  Which is why most of it has been put up for about two years in the first place.

lvrr325,

Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I have had many dealings with the Spot over the past couple of years, all of which have been very positive. It is unfortunate that you had the problem with them that you did.

I agree that Bachmann's pricing structure is very inequitable and punishes the small dealers just for being small. I also feel that Bachmann's warranty policies are misleading and do not really support the product as well as Bachmann implies it does. Even in the days of their "Lifetime Warranty", if you actually read the fine print, the handling/service charge was usually about what the wholesale import value of any of their items was worth, so basically what they were doing was selling you a new item at their wholesale cost, and calling it a warranty replacement. Back then, they were fairly lenient and tended to support the customer much better, but their products were so cheap it didn't much matter. Once the Spectrum On30 stuff came out at a much higher price, their "Lifetime Warranty" policy was dropped. This was done quietly, with many customers and dealers who didn't always read the fine print, thinking that all Bachmann  products still were covered by a "Lifetime Warranty". Some still believe it.

Unfortunately, if you want to model in On30, you must either scratch build, kit-bash, or simply accept Bachmann as they are, since there are so few players in the game. The other few major manufacturers who make locomotives for On30 are no better than Bachmann when it comes to their pricing policies or their warranties, and for this reason, very few dealers will stock their products. The only reason most stores carry Bachmann is because they are well established through all the major hobby distribution channels, and it's easy. Still, very few stores will stock any On30.

After my own disappointment with Bachmann's on-going gear splitting problems, both in HO and On30, I'm also beginning to think On30 is more frustrating than fun, due to available steam locomotives (and rail-trucks) being so unreliable when it comes to operation. I am reluctant to buy any new Bachmann On30 releases as a result of my own bad experiences with their HO and On30 Shays, On30 Climax, and rail-trucks. In fact, I would have already given up On30 altogether, if I had not had a good experience with my Forney's, O.F. 2-8-0's, 4-4-0's and Davenport switchers (yet others have complained of gear problems with their Davenports).

Regards,
Bill