Battery Power on a Spectrum 4-4-0

[walrii]

We are building small G-scale outdoor railroad with a Spectrum 4-4-0 pulling 3 or 4 cars over 120' of track.  Max grade is 1.5%.  We are going with a battery and radio control.  (Don't start the DCC/DC/battery argument - this is a different question!) 

What amperage does the 4-4-0 pull at max and moderate speeds?  I doubt we'll run the loco at max speed on the small track but that will give me an upper bound. 

How much do lights and sound add to the draw?  I need round numbers to calculate how big a battery I'll need (two hours run time is what I'm figuring). 

How much does smoke add to the draw?  I know, I know - a LOT - but how much exactly.  (I, myself, would rather use the mahs for something else but  the wife thinks smoke is cool.)

My current thinking is an 18v battery but I'm open to suggestions on that score.

Why doesn't Bachmann list those numbers on the first page of their owner's manual?  That one might be hard to answer - I threw it in with a small measure of frustration.

Thanks.

[Loco Bill]

Can't answer directly about the 4-4-0, but my Annies run for 4 hours with either sierra or Phoenix Big sound 97,s with no smoke using a lithiun IOn battery pack  14.8 volt 2600 mah.

My son uses the same battery packs to run 3 USA GP38-2's pulling 18 Aristo 100 ton hoppers and a caboose.  Only one unit has Phoenix sound, no smoke.  Grades are heavy 2.5 to 3%  Run time is about an hour, Yes all six motors on one battery!!!

Both situations are continuous running in my case at medium to low speed, but my son with almost full throttle.    If I even try to run full throttle, it is way to fast (except for my grand daughter)  my Annies pull less than .5 amp when running at medium speed.   

You should get at least 1.5 hours with smoke and 3.5 without smoke with a similar battery.  If you are not on a low budget get a 4200 Mah version which I feel certain with give you the two hours you want.  No matter what you do smoke is a mess(gets all over everything) and you will have to  constantly add smoke fluid as it does not last long.  If you are running outside, smoke is a total waste of time except on the stillest of days, and even then well.......

Hopefully someone with have answers for your very specific quiestions, and I offer the above simply as what works for me and my son.

Enjoy your trains!!

[Kevin Strong]

Figure on around 1 amp max for motor, lights and sound on the 4-4-0. I don't know what the smoke unit draws, since I don't run it. I usually get around three or so hours out of my locos running 2600 mAh batteries pulling similar trains on similar grades.

You don't need 18 volts. I run all my locos on 14 volts, and it's plenty fast enough. If you're going to try to cram everything into the tender of the 4-4-0, I'd recommend going with a Li-Ion (Lithium-ion) battery. You get the most power per cubic inch. You can get them in 14.8 volt packs. The ones I use are 2600 mAh, though you can get 4400 mAh packs, too. The trick is cramming the 4400 mAh batteries in the tender with sound and control. You can do it if you use a very flat speaker, or move the speaker to one end or the other as opposed to having it in the middle where the pre-molded speaker mount is. Myself, I just keep the shell easily removable, and swap out the 2600 mAh batteries as they die. I can charge them in around 90 minutes, so while one's running, the other's charging.

Later,

K

[walrii]

Thanks for the replies.

The trick is cramming the 4400 mAh batteries in the tender with sound and control.

Is there room in the 4-4-0 loco for some of the gear?  I was thinking of putting the reciever and sound in the loco and the battery in the tender - sounds like from your comment the speaker won't fit in the loco.  I haven't taken the engine and tender apart yet - the wife has it on display!

[Kevin Strong]

Depends on the size of the speaker. I put a 2" flat speaker in a scratchbuilt tender, hooked to a Phoenix sound system, and it sounds fantastic. If you use that, then there's no reason everything won't fit very neatly in the tender.

There is room in the loco, but then you're running more wires to and from the loco and tender. Don't know if you really need/want to do that.

Later,

K

[walrii]

Ah, I see, Kevin.  Thanks for the info gentlemen.  Now I have the numbers I need to figure things out.