Coupler headaches

[jonathan]

...or a caboose!

[CNE Runner]

Jim - I got a laugh at your 'suggestions' on couplers...especially the one where the centering spring was on the wrong side of the shank. I can't tell you how many cars we have taken in for sale that had complied with your 'suggestion'.

Another no-no is to completely weather couplers (don't ask how I know this...I'll plead the 5th). Weathering has the opposite effect of brinelling - the couplers become less 'slippery' and will cause all sorts of agita.

I thought Gene and Hawaiiho were also on target. Model trains are toys and are not designed for the stresses and strains of life in the real world. Track is never perfect (except on your layout) and cars are occasionally mishandled ('ever hit the bumper a little too hard at the end of a siding?). This hard use will take its toll - so the only incomplete answer is to: 1) install couplers correctly (in other words, do the opposite of Jim's suggestions) and 2) carry on a regular rigorous maintenance schedule on your track and rolling stock.

As an aside: I wonder what will come of MTH's 'uncouple anywhere' units? I would love to see what one of their couplers looks like (this is followed by: "I would love to be able to afford one of their products").

Ray

[kevin2083]

I'll add my as well.

Almost ALL the problems I've had with cars uncoupling by themselves was caused by the trackwork.  Yes, sometimes the couplers will be at the wrong height , and sometimes there will be something wrong with the coupler, but like I said- it's usually from the track being liad poorly. Just spend some quality time with the track- you'll be glad you did.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Jiminy! When I read all you need to do to make knuckle couplers work correctly, it makes me even happier to stay with horn-hooks! 

[CNE Runner]

Jeff, old buddy, I remember when X2F couplers were all that was out there in hobby land. The magnetic coupler is a vast improvement over that abomination; however magnetic couplers aren't perfect. If one takes a little time to have decent trackwork (not perfect...decent) and assembles/adjusts/maintains the units they work just great. My Sweet Haven Harbor Ry. was built, stored, and run in an unheated/un-airconditioned garage. All rolling stock and locomotives were stored on shelves in the garage as well. In the 4 years I ran that pike, I had no problems with magnetic couplers (notice I said 'couplers' and not 'uncouplers'). I did take care in laying track and I guess that paid dividends in the end. The layout was dismantled because of electrically failing turnouts not from track or coupler problems (thankfully I discovered Peco products).

There is no way I would want to go back to the old hook-horn days!

Ray

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Jeff, old buddy, I remember when X2F couplers were all that was out there in hobby land. The magnetic coupler is a vast improvement over that abomination.

There is no way I would want to go back to the old hook-horn days!

Ray

Seems to me, from what I've heard and read over the years, that horn-hooks are only an abomination if you're seriously into switching. All I ask of couplers is that they hold a running train together, and horn-hooks do that quite nicely. At any rate, I've never had a problem with horn-hooks doing that. I see no reason to retrofit 45 years worth of rolling stock with knuckle couplers--and I've even retrofit with horn-hooks some new pieces that came with knuckle couplers. 

[RAM]

The air hose (trip pin) goes up, right?

[Jim Banner]

RAM,

May I add that to my list?  Except I like to put them down, even when the car is upside down.

Jim

[Robertj668]

What do you do if you cannot screw in securely the coupler box?  Like on some gondola or flat cars, I glued it to the but how to secure the gearbox so it does not pop open? I did try trimming the screw so it hold the box securely closed.

I love my Kadee Couplers.  Especially the whisker couplers. But they can be a challenge some times.  I love using the red and gray washers. I have use them on the trucks and on the gear boxes.  I will now try the grease though.

And does anyone else have a Freight car or two the has a Horn Hook on one end and a Kadee Coupler on the other? For those engines that either you can't or wont convert?

RAM I have put in a few upside down.

Jim could you elaborate on this. Does it really help? With picture?
"don't bother Brinelling (polishing with pressure) the coupler shank and front lip of the centering spring."

Robert

[jward]

for those situations where a screw would stick up through the floor of the car and be noticeable you have several options.

1. use a shorter screw or trim your screw so that it is flush with the car floor. kadee makes a plastic screw that is good for trimming.

2. paint the protruding end of the screw the same colour as your car so that it doesn't stand out.

3. conceal the end of the screw inside a load.

the one thing i wouldn't do is glue the whole coupler box to the car. if you glue it, how will you change the coupler if it breaks?

[Atlantic Central]

At the risk of stirring things up some more, I will offer a few thoughts:

Hellbound, shelf couplers are not a cure for rough track. These are small scale models not Lionel toys.

The long list of "generic" knuckle couplers on the market are largely intended to provide a cheap universal coupler, not to provide the highest quality or performance.

The new "semi-scale" couplers, regardless of brand, have a number of drawbacks and limitations that are not being explained by their promoters. That is almost a topic in its self, but the short version is I would not recommend tem to the inexperianced or casual modeler.

The following is a copy of post I wrote years ago on this topic:


I will outline as simply as possible why all the generic knuckle couplers (EZ mate, Proto, McHenry, etc) are not as good as original Kadee couplers. But before I do, let me say that for their intended purpose of providing an inexpensive universal coupler for the North American Ready to Run Train Set market, these generic couplers are OK, not great, but OK. With trains of limited length (10-20 cars) on typical track work, they do work as well or better than the horn hook X2F that preceded them.

All of the generic knuckle couplers in question suffer from the following problems, some brands more than others regarding each problem.

The knuckles are larger than Kadee couplers allowing considerable more slack in the train. This becomes a serious problem as train lengths increase. This excess slack contributes to down hill uncoupling or emergency stop derailments and uncoupling.  This also increases coupling distances between cars which is an appearance problem. As I will describe later, this is not the only part of these designs that increases slack, making matters even worse.

The pivot holes in these couplers are generally larger than Kadee so that too increases slack. In addition to problems of slack and sagging, this can work with the centering springs to tilt the coupler sideways, affecting it performance.

The shanks are thinner in the vertical dimension, combining with the loose fit of the pivot to allow the coupler to droop, or when under load, allowing it to work up and down causing uncoupling at vertical curves at the beginning of grades or uneven sections of track. This droop also results in the pulling faces not being parallel, contributing to the problem of one coupler working up over another, rather than sliding slightly on vertical curves.

The integral cast on springs require that the material used be soft and springy, this makes the knuckle too weak. This is why they fail on long trains, and may account for the loss of knuckle springs on those versions with separate knuckle springs.

All of the integral cast springs (centering or knuckle) are subject to fatigue when left in a loaded condition, this than causes failures when the train is moved.

Good coupler performance requires that slack be minimized, coupler shanks be parallel to the track, and coupler heights be precisely set - the generally sloppy and poor fit of these couplers in most of the existing coupler boxes on the market is the main cause of their poor performance with long trains.

Several others have commented about using Kadee couplers exclusively in the Kadee coupler boxes. While this does eliminate any problems of poor fit, it is only necessary in a few cases. Athearn cars for example can benefit greatly from the simple operation of squaring up the bends of the stamped metal covers and/or crimping the cover onto the box with a pair of pliers.

Properly installed Kadee couplers work flawlessly on good track work and for me there is no other choice.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Johnson Bar Jeff,

Back in the dark ages of the hobby when the X2F was just being invented, and Kadee couplers where expensive and not fully refined, many modelers not concerned with coupling and uncoupling, used scale dummy couplers.

They are vastly superior to anything on the market in simply keeping the train "connected".

Sheldon

[Robertj668]

Jward
Thank you for the advice I have used the plastic screws in the past but they strip to easily, so I trim a screw instead.

On the 2 or 3 that i decided to glue completely I do not use them very much. And if the coupler fails I will cross that bridge when I get there.

By the way how often do couplers fail to where they need to be replaced?

Robert

PS Good topic!

[jward]

coupler failures vary widely depending on the brand. as was mentioned elsewhere, most of the plastic knuckle couplers are prone to failure. those with integral springs often have the spring fail. that coupler needs to be replaced. with the plastic knuckles, and sometimes with kadees too, the coupler head pops off if the car hits the floor. using too much pressure when adjusting trip pin height may also cause the head to pop off. all those couplers need to be replaced.

from my experience, kadees fail far less than other brands. but coupler failure is enough of a potential problem that i don't take the chance gluing the box shut.

[Robertj668]

Jward
Thanks I would love to post a few of my Coupler coversionss one day.  Yampa Bob (who I hope is okay since I have not seen him here on the site for a long while) did a great post on this. I always wanted to do a little video on conversions and put it on youtube. However I am afraid of all of the purists that would critique every little mistake I made. 

Sheldon
Great advice too.


Robert