Amfleet Passenger Cars Redux

[jonathan]

I have asked this question before, and pulled the post for lack of response. I can't give up because I really like these cars. I usually pick on up every time I hit a train show (about $15 cheaper than retail). They are an accurate model of the cars that pass my office every day.  They are perfect for commuter service, which I seem to be obsessed with for some reason. I'm sure there must be a solution.



Problem:  The wheel axles ride on a metal shelf (pick up), which support the weight of the car. There is too much resistance, which means the car does not roll freely.  The first pic shows the car in back sitting on a 1.5% grade.  All my other cars will roll right down that grade with no problem.  The amfleet car just sits there.  The prototype has one P-42 loco pulling 6-8 cars.  I need two engines to pull that many cars.

Things tried:  I have tried filing the shelf smoother, applying light oil and applying graphite.  Using a strong finger flick, I can't get the wheels to spin any longer than two seconds.  The second pic reveals the truck box interior to show how the wheelset sits in the truck assembly.



I know Intermountain sells a 36" wheel called Ball-Bearing". I can't find a description anywhere on the net.  Has anybody tried these wheels?  I'm hoping the wheels turn separately from the axle.  They are expensive.  I don't want to buy some unless I know how they work.  I know any solution might cause the loss of interior lighting I can live with that.

Regards,

Jonathan

[mlrr]

Try PROTO 1000 or 2000 wheelsets by life like.  You'll have to ut the spikes on the outside of each wheel set and grind it down so that it is flush with the wheel.  The axles is smaller.   I've used Northwest Shortline wheelsets for my Walthers Amfleets also but I think the former may be the way to go.

Also add conducta lube to the wheel bearings.

Hope this helps!

Kyle

[stationmaster12]

How about swapping the old trucks for the trucks that Bachman uses on their new Amfleet cars. You might be able to get them from Bachman.

[jonathan]

Kyle,

If I understand you correctly, a thinner axle will reduce the friction.  I can certainly grind down the points as you say.  If I'm careful with wire cutting, I may save the lighting as well (instead of all wheel pick up, I could make the wheels front-left-rail/rear-right-rail pick up on each car).  Food for thought.  I could experiment with some insulated Intermountain 33" wheels I happen to have.  If that works, then I can go for some 36" wheels.

Stationmaster2,

Not sure I understand.  Did Bachmann fix the friction problem in a new run of amfleet cars?  Or... do you mean I should swap out amfleet trucks for acela trucks.  Acela trucks are a different animal (outside bolster), and would not be accurate.  I have a full consist Acela Train which rolls beautifully.  Can't say enough good things about the Acela.  Just wouldn't fly with a car that's supposed to be inside bolstered.

Thanks for the ideas, guys.

Regards,

Jonathan

Addendum:

I have recently researched numerous similar forums dating back to 2001.  All have stated the same issue with the poor rolling quality of the inside axle bolster on Amfleet commuter cars.  Walthers has the same issue with their cars.  Most have opined that the only solutions were either replace the trucks with something non-prototypical, or lightly file out the pick up/bearing and add a good dose of oil.  Hard to believe someone hasn't developed a wheel, with ball-bearings, so the axle can remain stationary, while the wheel spins.  I know the wheel wouldn't be cheap, but it would be worth it to have a nice looking, prototypical passenger car, that rolls freely.  I was hoping the Intermountain ball bearing wheelset was the answer, but apparently no one has ever bought one to try it.  Perhaps I'll be the guinea pig and get a set, just to see if I can make this work.  Did I mention I was frugal?  I hate to throw away $20 (plus shipping) for enough wheels to work on just one car.  Let me get myself psyched up for this...

[stationmaster12]

Hello,
I had a set of the new Amfleet cars (Bachman's silver series cars)a while back and they ran fine with no troubles. So I suggested was swapping out the trucks for the ones used on the new run of cars.  From what I can remember they are built different and operate much better. So much that I'd love to put them on my Walthers Amfleet cars! I hope this helps!

[jonathan]

Thanks, SM12, for clearing that up for me.  Now I will look into the new run of the Silver Series Amfleet Cars. 

Can you tell what's different about the trucks or wheelsets?  I'm surprised there wasn't an announcement.  From what I'm learning, it seems this has been a problem for Amtrak modelers for a period of years.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Robertj668]

Jonathan
These are my favorite as well.  Actually it is these passenger cars that kept bringing me back to HO.  I currently have three of the phase II coaches and am looking to get more of these or get the newer phase.  I have similar problems too.  By the way what Amtrack engines do you run with them.  I am currently running the Amtrak Phase III #974 and have the older Version Phase II #951

My Local Ebay Hobby Shop guy just got these in.  I have decided to get a couple of these after I finally get the Acela though.

Robert

http://cgi.ebay.com/BACHMANN-HO-AMFLEET-PASSENGER-CAR-TRAIN-13106_W0QQitemZ200383261557QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item2ea7c5eb75&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

[jonathan]

A Fellow AmTRAKker!

I have the Athearn/Walthers PHV P-42 (#55) to pull the PHV Amfleet cars (I have two of those so far).  I have a Bachmann PHIII FHP40 and dummy (#306,#316), which has three PHIII amfleet coaches so far.  I also have the Atlas Silver Series PHV Dash 8 "Pepsi Can".  That's really a west coast loco, but it was so beautiful, I had to have it. 

I have a bunch of PHIV amfleet coaches, but no PHIV loco yet.  Bachmann made a nice one that is discontinued now I think.  I'll find one eventually. 

The Acela is the best of all the Amtrak choices right now.   You'll be glad you got it.  I think its one of the best deals going right now.  Some LHS's get old acela cars in as well.  I picked up a couple extra cars for $9 a piece.  Just needed some coupler assemblies, which Bach. part dept happen to have.

Constructing an 8-track-wide Union Station area to park my fleet, as it grows
Here's a couple of bad pics:







Everything is in the contruction phase right now, so it looks crude, but you get the idea.



Alright enough fun, back to solving the dragging wheels problem...

Regards,

Jonathan

[Michigan Railfan]

Jonathan, looks crude? Yeah right. That's an amazing layout. I've already looked at your album, and your layout looks awesome. You have some really cool trains too.

[jonathan]

Well, thank you very much.  Always happy to share.  One of these days I'll get brave enough the join the local club (PWCMRC) and have some fellow modelers over to see it in person.  They have a large layout in one half an operating train station.  Very cool...

Jonathan

[Robertj668]

Jonathan

Photo's look great. Station especially! My son recently is getting on board with the passenger cars too. And of course with passenger cars comes the problems of passenger cars.  Lighting!  I may go with battery operated lighting. But that is another subject!
I am looking forward to the Acela trains set.  Does you use or have any reference when modeling Amtrak?

Robert

[jonathan]

My only real reference is watching the Amtrak trains go by my office.  The northeast corridor runs about 30 yards away from me all day long.  I typically see one P42 loco pulling 6-8 cars on regular commuter runs.  I also catch older trains that are still in service.  There are a couple FP40s, in VRE paint schemes (one loco up front, one in the rear).  Those engines pull a hodge podge of various Amtrak passenger cars.  So I would say it's still prototypical to mix various phases of Amtrak cars together and still make a realistic train.

If I ever have the financial means, I want to model the long distance auto trains.  They have two or three P42s pulling 8-10 of the tall passenger cars (Walthers carries them) followed by a cut of auto carriers in Amtrak paint schemes.  Nobody carries the Amtrak PHV auto carriers.  So I would have to get some undecorated cars and paint and decal them (lots of work).  That's a someday project.  It would take substantial fundage to build one those trains.  Oh, and I need a wider layout with track radii that can handle those auto cars (86' long).

As far as a union station goes...  I can't possibly model the DC Union Station.  It's huge and 24 tracks wide.  So I'm building a shrunken version.  There are plenty of images of that station available from web searches.  I get ideas of what to build by using those images.  The front of the station will have a circular drive, with some sort of monument out front, taxi stands, etc.  That station model (Cornerstone) has lots of big windows and skylights, so I'm also planning a detailed interior with lights (another someday project).  Usually there are two Acela trains parked at Union Station, ready to go.  I plan on staying with one.  I will not build catenary—too breakable for me.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Robertj668]

Jonathan
My wife loves the pictures. As like me, the train station, all of the Amtrak stuff and the "White Castle" were our favorites.  So what is the size of the layout?
I may have asked this before.  But I am guessing you are around 30 to 35? And you mentioned you had a wife.  She seems as understanding as mine.  An understanding wife is that important to the Hobby.  And to the marriage too I guess
We love the rock formations that you did! Was it tough?  Any pictures of that too? You gave my wife, yup my wife the inspiration to help me with the scenery.
Please feel free to email e anytime for all stuff that is trains.
[email protected]
Robert
PS This is a nice message board that Bachmann has.  I belong to the Model Railroader one too but I have yet to post more than a message or two

[Michigan Railfan]

Your welcome, Jonathan. I think someone from the club would be very impressed with your layout.

[Mouse]

Have you tried to file the truck with a round file where the axle rides? Had a problem with some Walthers' Amfleet cars doing the same thing. Used a round file and did a little at a time until they rolled free without too much slop.