bachmann 4-6-6-4 challenger proposal

[skipgear]

You are not getting it.

If it cost them $300K to tool and produce the loco, it will take sales of 5-10,000 pieces to recover their tooling at $300 retail each. Just because it sells for $300 in the store, Bachmann doesn't see but maybe a quarter or less of that and then you have to take into consideration materials and manufacturing costs, shipping....etc. etc. Bachman realistically only makes probably $10-20 profit on each loco, if that much. It takes a lot of loco sales to recover that money.

[jwoj69]

You are not getting it.

If it cost them $300K to tool and produce the loco, it will take sales of 5-10,000 pieces to recover their tooling at $300 retail each. Just because it sells for $300 in the store, Bachmann doesn't see but maybe a quarter or less of that and then you have to take into consideration materials and manufacturing costs, shipping....etc. etc. Bachman realistically only makes probably $10-20 profit on each loco, if that much. It takes a lot of loco sales to recover that money.

In 20 years of working in manufacturing,  i never was quoted such high tooling cost. Bachmann owes injection molding machines. New dye runs about $6000 to $10000
On high side, one dye each for body, tender, and small parts. That's $18000 to $30000
lets double the highest number, that is $60000, to cover royalty fees (if any) and the rest.
This means $6 extra per locomotive @10000 value. I think making new engine can be more
with in reason. Especially if Bachmann would use prints from engine in another scale.
I hope it will make more sense now.
jack

[skipgear]

The $300K number comes from quotes from ConCor and insiders at Kato. There is more to the cost than tooling alone. Research and design is part of the cost. Reseaching a loco could be a years worth of man hours alone if you can even find all the info you need. A Challenger would be easier as there are existing examples, both full size and model, to measure and photograph.

Do you really think Bachmann would buy somebody elses loco and just copy it in N? Keep in mind you are talking about tooling close to 100 parts to build a Steam loco, especially an articulated one with seprately applied details that everybody expects now. Steam costs money and I don't see it getting any cheaper. That developement money would be better spent on loco's that are not currently available or under represented.

I scratchbuild N scale steam so I know what is involved in building one. That is basing things on existing chassis as much as possible. Right now I am working on a B&O P7 and I am stuck trying to find good references to the valve gear and the backhead of the loco. Things like these can not be fudged on a production model.

This stuff is not as easy as many think it is. Look at Kato's GS-4. Kato who has had a string of hits with no errors missed some big ones on that loco and had to come up with patches to fix it. Even the best can make mistakes.

This is what I do:

[jwoj69]

The $300K number comes from quotes from ConCor and insiders at Kato. There is more to the cost than tooling alone. Research and design is part of the cost. Reseaching a loco could be a years worth of man hours alone if you can even find all the info you need. A Challenger would be easier as there are existing examples, both full size and model, to measure and photograph.

Do you really think Bachmann would buy somebody elses loco and just copy it in N? Keep in mind you are talking about tooling close to 100 parts to build a Steam loco, especially an articulated one with seprately applied details that everybody expects now. Steam costs money and I don't see it getting any cheaper. That developement money would be better spent on loco's that are not currently available or under represented.

I scratchbuild N scale steam so I know what is involved in building one. That is basing things on existing chassis as much as possible. Right now I am working on a B&O P7 and I am stuck trying to find good references to the valve gear and the backhead of the loco. Things like these can not be fudged on a production model.

This stuff is not as easy as many think it is. Look at Kato's GS-4. Kato who has had a string of hits with no errors missed some big ones on that loco and had to come up with patches to fix it. Even the best can make mistakes.

This is what I do:

I see Your point. Most of design could be spread in between different scales. Bachmann could produce the engine in N scale, follow version in Ho, On30, G.
I still feel that we have better chance to see N scale Challenger without sound made by Bachmann than even Athearn, do to their profit.
Bachmann has already lots of parts from 2-6-6-2 they can use. Every manufacturer will try to utilize egzisting components. Atlas diesel chassis is not changed in years, just their body.
I have faith in Bachmann that they would try to make us happy. How about Bach-man. Can You tell us Your point?

[Guilford Guy]

He/The Company doesn't need to, because other posters have already answered you for them. It is already being made by another company, and the tooling would be very expensive especially when they have to compete with sales. Bachmann is unique in that it offers locomotives that few of the main manufacturers care to offer. Steam locomotives that they don't have to compete against for sales would sell far more, than one that another company produces, and if they were to invest in Big Boy toolings, they would probably NOT get their money back.

[jwoj69]

The Espee 4-8-8-2 Cab Forwards are due from InterMountain next month. 

I had found out few days ago, about huge delay of cab forward at least until fall this year. Too many pre production problems.
jack