IHC Covered Hoppers

[Doneldon]

In lieu of being able to obtain non steel bird shot, some states still allow for the use of lead fishing sinkers (States Rights n all).    Small, round lead sinkers may be found, close in size to BBs to use as a substitute for the BBs, which will provide greater added weight.

jb-

True, but at a significantly higher cost both per unit and per ounce.

                                                                                           -- D

[Mdaskalos]

My advice is that they learn to shoot more accurately so they don't have to worry about wounded birds, deer or whatever else they're hunting.
                                                                                                                                                                -- D

I find your "advice" to be rather smug, uninformed, and more than a little condescending.

Also, your advocacy of a ban does not belong here; a ban, being a heavy-handed government instrument or policy, is inherently political, and is thus against the clearly stated policy on the Bachmann forums.

I am more than happy and able to take your position apart brick by brick; if your post remains intact, I will do so.

I suggest you revise your remarks to comply with forum policy, to do your part to maintain forum decorum. I am not suggesting that you do this out of being afraid to engage me in a debate. (I rather expect that you are not). I am suggesting, rather, that you consider your remarks, and consider further that those who offer us this forum space have requested that we not take discussions into territory that YOU have taken this one, and that you respond accordingly.

I am throwing down no gauntlet; I am merely picking up the one you have rather cavalierly dropped in our midst. I am picking it up, handing it back to you, looking you squarely in the eye, and saying, "Here. This is yours. You know what it means to throw this down, I know what it means to pick it up. You have one chance to put it back in your pocket; otherwise, here and now is where you have thrown it down, and here and now is where we will have at it."

I do not expect, in making these remarks, or in any further response I may make, to win friends and influence people. Rather, I expect the opposite; I fully expect to be seen by some as attacking a respected, long-time member of this forum. But I do not join forums to obtain respect or admiration. Frankly, I don't really care what most people think of me. I do care however, about right and wrong, and when someone wishes to be wrong and violate the rules of conduct at the same time, I stand at the ready to respond. (I join forums to obtain (and, when I can, offer) information in the areas to which the forums pertain, BTW)

No, I have not reported this to the moderators; that rings too much of running to mommy for me to do so. I would not be surprised, however, to find that someone has now gone to a moderator with this matter. (Not necessarily you, but perhaps anyone who really would rather not see this boil over in the forum)

But, it need not boil over. You edit your post to redact you advocacy and your flippant "advice", and I'll remove the entirety of this post, and we both walk away like nothing ever happened.

I await with interest your choice. We can either keep the forum clean and dedicated to the purpose for which it was intended, or we can go round and round until the mods step in. Either way, one learns much about who he interacts with by sitting back and observing at moments like this.

Manuel

[Doneldon]

Manuel-

Very funny. At least I hope so. I'd hate to think that anyone could have
seriously written your post. I appreciate the entertainment.
                                                                                                 -- D

[jward]

I didn't see doneldon's post as inherently political. neither, I suspect, did most of us on the forum. so I am wondering what purpose the above post served, other than to try to stir up drama.

posting about using bird shot is a germaine topic to weighting cars, as are reasons why said bird shot may be hard to find, or any hazards it may cause.

[jbrock27]

Doc, I can see that we are going to have another debate over "cost".  I have not crunched the numbers, but what are you seeing as a "significantly higher cost"?  In some places, it may be possible to find lead based sinkers at a discount bc of banning.

I think Md was being serious and has the right to make his post as I do believe Doc was being environmental/political in his post.  And I think both posts deserve to remain.  I can understand why Md would take exception to Doc's last comment in his 8/28/13 post.  I am not a hunter myself; I fish catch and release only, so I and my son, and later on his children can continue enjoying catching fish in the future.
I understand that is not possible for a hunter, but that does not mean I am against the act of hunting.  I also view myself as an environmentalist, believe in recycling, the whole bit.
In all fairness, I don't think Md would have made his post if Doc had stopped his post following his noting the lead ban on bird shot.

[jbrock27]

Oh, and PS, I bought some store brand "Tacky" glue at a local craftstore last night to use when I go to add weight to a tanker car.  Used a 40% off coupon too, Doc

[Len]

I use BB's because they're easy to find in my local area, and do the job. If you prefer something else, go for it.

Len

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

FYI- Lead sinkers may face a similar fate to Dons birdshot. Maybe I wont be afraid to eat the catfish, and bullhead I catch after awhile. I doubt it will throw off my casts .

[Doneldon]

I'm not so sure it's political to endorse a plan to remove known carcinogens or poisons from our environment when there are readily available substitutes with little or no down side. I know for a fact that there's nothing in the Constitution preventing the government from abridging an individual's right to distribute dangerous substances without regard for either the environment or the other citizens of the country. Just check the history of alar or DDT.

I suppose the folks who have bags of lead ammunition components or fishing equipment can justifiably complain that a lead ban costs them money but I can't imagine that anyone has missed a meal or had their home foreclosed because they couldn't use lead pellets when they went hunting with their $1800 (or much more) Benelli shotgun. I believe the subject does become political, however, when the subject is misinterpreted as a threat to someone's masculinity or sacred right to bear arms. (That, by the way, is just about the most misunderstood part of the whole Constitution.)

Guns are red-hot due to both the efforts of some, admittedly, overbearing gun haters/fearers and some equally febrile gun owners who have been told at every opportunity that the government wants to take their guns away and therefore anything which smells even remotely of gun control must be immediately attacked. I personally have little time for either extreme.

I do believe that there is no rational or Constitutional right to own and use guns which are designed solely to kill human beings, or to allow people to have guns unless they know how to use them safely and they practice what they know. The large number of children who kill themselves or their siblings with unsupervised loaded guns suggests to me that there are a lot of gun owners who aren't responsible with their weapons. And then there are the people who are harmed by their own guns far more often than they effectively use those same guns for self protection, which would be hysterically funny if it weren't so tragic. And let's not even get into the bloodshed on our streets and in our schools because of the huge number of unmonitored guns in the hands of kids who think having a gun makes them a man but who will never be a man as long as they have no respect for the sanctity of human life. The problem is, to my way of thinking, that too many otherwise well-meaning members of our society have bought into the gun control scare put out there by, mostly, the NRA. It's very interesting to me that a majority of NRA members favor at least some forms of gun control but their organization ignores that because of the vast dollars pumped into the organization by the gun manufacturers who clearly have a reason to keep gun owners threatened by any effort to restrict gun ownership or use (read: buy guns from those same manufacturers).

Even I recognize that I am sliding dangerously close to mounting a soapbox so I will end my little missive here. But I do want to emphasize that my comments about banning lead ammunition was not political in any way. Just an observation.
                                                                                                                                                                   -- D
 

[jbrock27]

GG1 lead fishing weights have been going the way of Doc's lead bird shot.  They have been band in my state and for the record everyone, I am not against that. They now make for great weights to be added to my rolling stock   By the way, the purpose of the ban was not for fish, but for waterfowl ingesting the lead.  Doc touched on this in his initial soliloquy.  You have a lot more other worries about what is in whatever freshwater fish you eat; have you ever heard of PCBs or Benzene?

Also for the record, I am not a fan of the NRA among other things.
 
Doc you appear to be the only one talking about or being concerned about money (cost).  I think the debate goes well beyond that but that is not for here really and will leave that to you and Md to debate, that is if you take his offer to do so.
How did we even get here from talking about weights for rolling stock?  Oh, wait I know, Doc got on his soapbox, not once, but twice.

Doesn't anyone want to talk about "Tacky" glue??
Doc, still looking for an answer to my question to you about "significantly higher cost".
   

[CNE Runner]

CMSLUSS - I think you have been given enough (abet conflicting) information on your original question; to pursue this topic any further is just an exercise in redundancy. Additionally, I see a negative 'turn' in the discussion that has diverted from the original post. Would you please 'lock' this thread?

My thanks to the usual 'cast of characters' who have taken their time to put forth some very useful information...you are what this forum is all about. To those of you who seem to be using this as a political forum...please take that discussion elsewhere.

We (my wife and I) are active pistol shooters (range...not hopefully another human ever) and have our own opinions on the nation's gun laws. [WARNING: Pistol range shooting is addictive!] The Bachmann forum is not the place to voice them. Honestly, I hope I haven't offended anyone by my remarks and am not attempting to start a 'firestorm' (as so often happens on forums). Personally, I will not open this thread again; so any response you may have will remain unread.

Peace,
Ray

PS: To be honest, I am really getting tired of the whole 'forum experience'.

[jbrock27]

Why close it Ray?  I would like to get opinions on "Tacky" glue please.

[jbrock27]

PS Ray, not sure why you would shut down after your last post and not read any further posts.  You have said your peace, would you not want others to have the same opportunity?  And that is not to say that I agree certain subjects should continue to be posted in this thread (please see my comment above about this debate not really belonging here).

I for one certainly hope you don't go the way of: Jim Banner, Yampa Bob, Jeff Wimberly and others.   

[Doneldon]

jb-

It's very simple: U.S. cents weigh 2.5 grams and there are roughly 28 grams to the ounce. Consequently, an ounce of pennies is just a tad over 11 cents. You can't buy lead sinkers or lead sheet or lead solder or any other form of weight for so little. For example, lead sheet for modeling costs $1.00 per ounce. That's nine times the cost of pennies. Black powder balls cost 20 cents each for both 140 grain and 175 grain balls. I'll use the 175 grain ball as it's the less expensive option. One-hundred seventy-five grains is .40 ounces so it would take 2.5 balls to equal an ounce. That's 50 cents per ounce, more than four times as much as pennies.

The results for other heavy sporting items favor pennies even more. Down Shot (a moldable weight) works out to $1.87 per ounce (x17). Bullet fishing weights work out to 76 cents per ounce (x7). Diamond Brass sinkers are $2.39 per ounce (x21). Ultra-Tin Split Shot cost 16 cents each with weight not specified but they are the size of the old lead split shot so you know it takes somewhere between several and many to equal an ounce. The least expensive airgun pellets, Crosman .177 caliber Ultra-Magnum Pellets, cost $9.99 for 500, or two cents each. They weigh 10.5 grains each or about 41.5 to the ounce. That works out to 83 cents per ounce (x7.5). I couldn't find the weight of a BB so I cannot compute the cost per ounce but at $12.99 for 600, they cost 2.16 cents each. In order to be cheaper than pennies, only 5.1 BBs would have to weigh an ounce. That means a BB would have to be twice the weight of a penny, a preposterous proposition. 125 grain bullets for reloading cost 20 cents each. One-hundred twenty-five grains is about .29 ounce, which means there would be 3.44 slugs per ounce. That works out to 68 cents per ounce, more than six times the cost of pennies.

It's certainly true that someone with a stock of lead sinkers, BBs, musket balls or some other suitable material can use it essentially for free but that's only because they've already paid the larger cost. There really is no question that pennies are by far the cheapest way to weight our rolling stock.

                                                                                                                                                                    -- D

[jbrock27]

Thank you for getting back to me Doc.  
Unfortunately, the pennies would not fit in the bottom portion of my AHM tanker car, so I am using ball shaped (split shot) fishing sinkers with Tacky glue.  As you touched on, these were already bought and paid for and are currently of no other use.
Seems to me the Tacky glue certainly takes a while to dry.