DC - DCC Ready Locomotives

[BIG Four]

Can I operate a dcc locomotive on a conventional dc track layout until such time I can upgrade to dcc controller power pak. Currently do not have any dcc and want to operate some new dcc ready locomotives while I am building a dcc layout.

Thank you

[jward]

First off. DCC ready means the locomotive does NOT have a decoder. It will have the motor isolated from the chassis but nothing else is guaranteed. SOme DCC ready locomotives have a socket where a decoder can be plugged in, but many will require a hard wired decoder.

DCC OnBoard, or DCC equipped means the locomotive has a decoder, and can be run as a DCC locomotive. Most of these locomotives come from the factory with a decoder that can run on either DC or DCC power. Many of us turn this feature off in our locomotives, so you may not be able to run a secondhand DCC locomotive on DC.

[trainman203]

Operation of DCC Locomotives on DC powered track can be done, but I've said it many times before here, it's like riding a bicycle backwards coast to coast.  It can be done, but it's very awkward and most of the DCC features can't be used.  You won't get the full enjoyment either until you have both at the same time.

[BIG Four]

Thank you both for your replies.

I am a 76 year old newbie who is getting enthused with this hobby. Currently Have a prototype layout and some older locomotives many of which do not work but nevertheless have helped me in future planning and layout possibilities. I believe the yard I am replicating ( its a legacy layout)  would be better if I went the DCC route in lieu of using and wiring for (2 cabinets).

Point of clarification: I am planning on maintaining and using the prototype while constructing the new layout and acquiring new locomotives. This will allow me and the grand kids something to run while I get a better understanding (education) of what is needed in the new layout.

 I ultimately can see the possibility of running 3 or maybe 4 engines around this yard with a turntable.  I am Currently working with (2) cabinets to run the 2 engines individually. This approach seems to work well but with limitations in switching and utilizing the track and yard layout along with future accessories.(your thoughts?)

I am full of ideas but definitely a neophyte needing a  lot of mentoring. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

Thanks again!

[BIG Four]

J Ward:

If you would please reply, what do you mean when you said:  Many of us turn this feature off in our locomotives, so you may not be able to run a secondhand DCC locomotive on DC.
[/quote]

Thank you

[Fred Klein]

BIG Four, what jward means is that, since you need a DCC system capable of programming CVs (Configuration Variables) to turn the "Run on DC" feature off or on, if you purchased a used locomotive in which this feature was turned off by the previous owner, you would not be able to turn this feature on without having a DCC system available, at least one time, in order to re-program the engine. Hope this helps.

[BIG Four]

Yes, I am beginning to glean the DCC is proprietary system ( for all the right reasons it seems)

and that "I" as a beginner, the DC trains and yard layout currently started for my first introduction somewhat limits me  when it comes to purchasing new engines overtime and using them until such time as I have a modern rail layout. Kinda reminds me as the old bird hunter I am, overtime with years of training several dogs, "you just have to hunt with the one you brought" and with the each dog training session , one gets better and better at either making more mistakes or learning from those mistakes one makes. I best embark on the traditional DC platform until that day a I seek a new "puppy". Yeh?

Thanks to all for helping this old bird hunter withthe empty game bag and the "Big Four Training" I am enjoying!. 

[Fred Klein]

BIG Four, DCC in itself is not proprietary. It was actually created as a standard by the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) and is on their website in all its gory details. That being said, the implementation of DCC by the various manufacturers is proprietary. I did not have a train layout for about 30 years (no room), so when I finally had a little space for my hobbies, I decided to go with an N-scale layout about 15 years ago. I had been keeping up with the hobby by reading Model Railroader and N-Scale magazines so I was aware of the possibilities DCC had to offer. I decided to take the plunge and purchased a Digitrax Zephyr starter system (I think it is model DCS 51). Now, I worked as a computer engineer for most of my life but getting into DCC was like starting all over. It took probably about 3-4 months of trial and error to become comfortable with it. When I say trial and error, I mean mainly in programming my locomotives to do what I wanted. However, after that learning curve, I really began to enjoy using DCC and would not go back to DC.

As an aside, I have since switched scales and now model in On30 because my arms became too short and I had trouble seeing the N-scale details (I'm the same age as you). Also, I like On30 because I like to work with my hands and the 1/48 scale lends itself well to building all kinds of models, which I really enjoy. However, I still use the same DCC system I originally purchased and it works just fine.

Anyway, start with DC but don't give up on DCC.

Hope this helps.

 

[BIG Four]

Thank you Fred!

I am wanting to purchase a couple of DCC ready engines and didn't know if they would run on the DC layout I currently have, so when I get the DCC layout , I will have already have a couple of engines.So many aspects of the DCC future yard that could be done.

The DC set up is up and running and the grandboys should be able to enjoy it when they come over. I relive the family history centered around the BIG Four maintenance yard of Brightwood , Indianapolis and sharing family history with both my kids and the grandkids. Dad had a Tavern  ( the Big Four Tavern) directly across the street from the roundhouse which my layout incorporates.

Now, I am interested in bringing the era specific locomotives to the layout and since it was a rather large maintenance yard, thus thinking the DCC would open more options.

[jward]

I also started with a Zephyr, the original DCS50. I found that acquiring a locomotive and running a train was relatively straightforward. Programming of decoders is a rabbithole you choose to go down. It can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be. It all depends on what you want out of your railroad. But at least with a system like Zephyr the capability to do those things is there. The latest version DCS62 has made the basic programming alot more intuitive, and I've never regretted buying wither of those units.


Regarding the decoders running on DC, and why we turn it off:

This is known as analog conversion. The DCC system puts full voltage on the track at all times. and the train is controlled by signals transmitted to the decoder. DCC voltage is a form of AC.Traditional DC operates by varying the track voltage to control the train. Analog conversion tells the decoder to look for DC voltage on the rails, and if it finds it, to run according to the voltage it finds. In certain conditions, like dirty track or a momentary short, the decoder can be tricked into thinking it's on DC, and the locomotive will take off at full speed. WHen this happens the only way to stop it is to turn the DCC system off and restart it. If you've ever had this happen you can imagine the panic that causes. It is easy to disable this feature to prevent this from happening, and I do so when I set the address on a new locomotive.

[trainman203]

Big 4, don't purchase a "DCC ready" locomotive unless you want to install the DCC decoder yourself. That term only means that the engine is ready to receive a Decoder.  And that itself is a maybe, because there may be incidentals required, depending on the decoder, I don't know them all. I am, however,certain from reading your posts that you are a beginner who would find decoder and sound installation daunting, frustrating, and quite possibly something to run you out of the hobby.  I've seen that happen to beginners trying to solder track when they should've bought sectional track.  Or taking on other tasks that are too advanced for the very beginner.

Make it easy on yourself right now.  Purchase a DCC system and a locomotive with a decoder and sound already installed right now.  Leave the DC behind.  I know that DC represents an investment, but at this point it appears to be an anchor dragging you down.  All is not lost with your DC stuff when you go DCC.  Keep the power pack for later on to provide power for accessories you don't have yet.  Keep the DC locomotive because you can get a professional to install a DCC decoder later on.  I promise you, when you hook that DCC system up to your track and put that DCC/Sound equipped locomotive on the track and you start hearing those sounds before the engine even moves, you will never ever go back to DC, which will be like pushing a corpse around the track.

DCC can appear daunting but the system I bought had great instructions for set up and the DCC/sound equipped Bachmann steam engine I bought was literally ready to go the second I put it on the track.

You should also know, FYI, there  are now decoders that allow you to run your DCC train using an app on your smart phone.  I just acquired five or six of these decoders.  The beauty of these is that you can take your engine and run on anyone else's DCC layout, regardless of whichever DCC system they may have, you don't need to bring a throttle with you or have to use their system that you might be unfamiliar with.  But I am ahead of myself.  Keep all of this  in mind for a future adventure along your model railroad journey.

There are several other modelers on this forum with long experience in model railroading.  I've been at it since 1961. If you have any questions, just come here, ask, and we'll help you out.

[Len]

If your existing layout uses blocks, all you have to do to convert it to DCC have some DCC equiped locos, turn all the blocks, except any where you want to store DC locos, to "On" and connect the DCC system of your choice. If you have not already programed the DCC loco addresses on a seperate track, put them on the mainline one at a time and set their addresses. Once that's done, put them on the track, select a loco, and start operating. You can even put a DPDT toggle switch between the DC power supply and DCC system to switch back and forth when you want to operate the DC locos.

Personally, I use the NEC Power Cab because the add-on throttle is the same as the original, which cut down the learning curve for my grankids. The Zephyr is also a nice starter system, but the button layout on add-on throttles is not the same as the base unit.

Len