Add me and just about every other NKP steam modeler out there to the list. Bachmann's new Berkshire tender is actually nicer than the Proto version, and comes fairly close to the 25 similar tenders the NKP bought for use behind USRA clone 2-8-2s (two of which are still around; 624 has one in Hammond, IN, and 587 ran fan trips with hers for several years).

LOTS of railroads used similar tenders behind older, smaller engines, especially Mikados. Off the top of my head I can name the PM, C&O, Wabash, DT&I, TP&W and IC as roads that used tenders that at least pass the "ten foot rule".

If you really have a "Casey Jones" engine numbered 382, then it's actually a 4-6-0. It's also an ancient Rivarossi or AHM engine with a VERY bad three pole "pancake" motor.

If so, you're pretty much out of luck. These engines never ran very well when they were first released in the mid-1960s, and by today's standards they're horrible.

The engine CAN be completely disassembled. I don't have one handy, but IIRC, they don't come apart easily. Start looking for screws and clips to free up.

Once the engine's disassembled, about the only thing you can do is to make sure that nothing's rusted inside (oh yes; RUST was a major problem with Rivarossis...), give it a good cleaning with rubbing alcohol, LIGHTLY lubricate the moving parts with LaBelle 103 oil (NOT 3-in-one oil or WD-40!), making sure to get NO iol inside the motor itself, and start test running it until everything works as freely as can be expected with this model...which isn't very.

The engines aren't DCC ready, they're DCC equipped.

As for sound, MRC and Soundtraxx both currently sell steam sound decoders. The new Bachmann 2-8-4 comes with sound enclosure mounts and holes molded into the tender floor, so it's only a matter of time before Bachmann starts selling them with DCC and sound preinstalled.

Quote from: Super Chief on January 30, 2008, 10:21:34 PM
Hi Bach-mann, with the sucess of your 2-8-4(way to go!), could you make a model of the Nickel Plate 587. It is a 2-8-2 class H-60 built by baldwin for the Wheeling & Lake Erie. The Nickel Plate bought the W&LE, it obtained the 587. The loco is now located at the Indiana RR Muesum undergoing a rebuild. If you make it, make it in HO scale with sound please!

NKP 587 was NOT a Wheeling & Lake Erie engine. It is a USRA light 2-8-2 built in 1919 for the LAKE ERIE and WESTERN, as their engine number 5541. When the NKP bought and absorbed the LE&W in 1922, they classified the LE&W's 15 USRA lights as class H-6o (oh, not zero).

Currently, there are already four USRA light models on the market (Bowser, BLI, Trix, IHC. Athearn made one a few years ago as well) so I don't think that Bachmann adding a fifth (or sixth) version of the same engine type would be a useful marketing plan on their part. Bachmann DOES need an American prototype 2-8-2 in their catalog however, and there are plenty of other deserving, and decidedly NOT USRA-styled engines out there that need to be made (Harriman-standard or NYC H-5, for example)

Quote from: r.cprmier on October 09, 2007, 01:46:37 PM
Orsonroy;
My intent was that of humour.  Don't be such a nitpicker; you'll ruin my day.

Rich

Sorry Rich. It's sometimes (usually?) difficult to gauge sarcasm online.

Quote from: r.cprmier on October 03, 2007, 10:22:15 PM
Hey Munchie;
S-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h...(don't tell Gene)...

Rich

Don't tell him what? That he's right?

The NEW YORK CENTRAL did not have any 2-8-4s on their roster. The B&A and P&LE were SEPERATE RAILROADS. The odd corporate structuring of the NYC included the two railroads (along with about a dozen others) as part of the New York Central SYSTEM of RAILROADS, but they were completely seperate entities, both from an operational and from a taxable standpoint.

OK, I'm seeing a lot of inaccuracies in the posts in this thread, so here's my two cents:

Quotefor the most part wooden box cars 40 feet in length were the norm.  Steel box cars didn't really come into use until after World War II was over and steel was more available.

Definitely not true. By 1935, NO wood boxcars were being built. In the 20th Century, the first mass-produced all-steel boxcars were the NYC's 1916 auto cars. By 1918 the NYC started building the first of over 30,000 all-steel boxcars. By 1922 the Pennsy jumped into the act by creating the X29, and built 35,000 of them. The only roads that held out and continued to build wood cars were those Pacific Northwest roads that had the lumber industry as customers. Even then, those cars were generally steel car designs with wood substituting for the steel sides. During WWII a small number of single sheathed boxcars were built to save steel for the war effort, but at the same time, thousands of all steel boxcars were being built (for example, the ATSF took delivery of something like 10,000 all steel boxcars during the war)

By the beginning of WWII, the USA boxcar fleet was about 20% double sheathed, 35% single sheathed, and 45% steel. About 65% of those cars were 40 footers, 30% were shorter (36' to 38'), and 5% were 50 footers (about evenly split between all steel and single sheathed). I've crunched the numbers in the 1930, 1940 and 1950 ORERs to come up with these general figures, so everyone's welcome to check my math!

QuoteWhat you would not have seen was old 36' cars, cars with wooden ends or truss rod frames would have been all gone or rebuilt.

Not QUITE true. The NYC ran several hundred all wood-bodied 38 foot boxcars until about 1946. Any car listed in the ORER was available for interchange duty, and there are still a few hundred all wood cars listed in 1950, mostly working on shortlines (the national car fleet was around 700,000 boxcars, so the percentage IS miniscule). 6% of the national boxcar fleet was under 40 feet long in 1950, and there were still several thousand cars with trussrods running.

A few notes on appliance bannings:

Archbar trucks: 1940
"trussrod" underframes: 1952
K brakes: 1952

And actually, those are about the ONLY appliance bannings out there for this period. Vertical stem brake wheels were never banned. Various other truck types were never banned. Underframes with trussrods which also had a steel center sill were never banned. KD brakes were never banned. All-wood carbodies were never banned. All of these things just died a natural death on their own accounts, as old cars bit the dust and were replaced by more modern cars.

QuoteIn the 40's you may find plenty of USRA boxcars.

Not exactly true. By 1940, most of the USRA single sheathed boxcars were still running (23,557 out of 25,000 built), but the double sheathed boxcars were dying off fast. By 1940, only 17,000 out of the original 25,000 cars were still running in their original condition, and by 1950 that number had shrunk to 5047 cars (wood-bodied cars don't survive as long as all steel cars). By 1935 most roads had started rebuilding their remaining DS boxcars into all steel cars (before WWII, not after).

QuoteI'm not sure how long the wood carbody would last before needing to be replaced by a thrifty carshop.

Thrifty or not, 20 to 25 years. The paint of the era lasted 7 to 12 years, so a wood boxcar would have been repainted at least twice in that period.


In general, the originator of this thread is talking about three completely different eras. 1940-1945 saw a bare majority of wood-bodied boxcars, with a healthy sprinkling of shorter cars built in the 1900-1918 period. 1945-1955 saw a major change in the rail scene, with the railroads scrapping every short or wood boxcar they could find. The process would have taken less than ten years, but the car builders couldn't keep up with the orders (which is why large railroads like the NYC and IC built so many of their own cars). The period of 1955-1960 was about how we see most "transition era" model railroads: lots of the same types of 40 foot steel boxcars, a smaller number of 50 foot steel cars, and only one or two wood cars. By 1955 railroads were starting to experiment with flash paint schemes on their cars, but those really didn't take off until 1958, or the end of the steam era.

Quote from: taz-of-boyds on October 02, 2007, 11:42:21 PM
Orsonroy,

Thanks, great info (and everyone else too!).  I hate to ask what might be obvious questions, but I learn a lot by asking dumb questions.  So the 2x12's were nailed across the lower three feet of the door opening?  And then the max fill with the grain would be three feet or so?  After filling I guess the regular doors would be closed?

Actually, six feet. Reread my post: "...two grain doors per car. A grain door was usually two sets of three 2x12s, marked with the railroad's name." (I suppose I could have made that a little clearer!)

Since boxcar doors were at least 8'6" tall, there was still some room for a (thin) elevator employee to wiggle his way out of the car with the doors in place.

I'm not actually sure just how high the various grain fill lines were on boxcars. Of course, it partially depends on whether the car has a 40 or 50 ton capacity, and what the specific grain was. IIRC, the corn fill line on a 50 ton car is about 5 feet off the floor.

Quote from: Paul M. on September 30, 2007, 08:14:35 PM
How was grain transported by rail in the '50s? I know covered hoppers weren't widely used yet, so they used boxcars. Was the grain bagged before it was loaded onto the boxcar? If so, would the grain have been bagged at the site of the grain elevator, or would they ship it to a large plant to be bagged? I seem to remember reading something about them sometimes loading unbagged grain onto boxcars.... How did they pull that off?

I'll assume that you're interested in bulk grain, not "finished" grain like flour.

In the early to mid 1950s, ALL bulk grain was shipped by boxcar, except for the few rare cases of extreme car shortages where OPEN hoppers were used in grain service, with canvas covers temporarily added to keep the grain (mostly) dry. The first bulk grain service airslides weren't built until 1957, and it took until about 1970 before there was MORE grain being moved by covered hopper than by boxcar.

Adding bulk grain to a boxcar is very simple. First, the railroad would ensure that they were delivering a CLEAN boxcar to an elevator. This would include removing any trash, fixing car liners if necessary (all boxcars at the time had wood interiors), and steam cleaning the interior if necessary. The railroad would deliver the car to the elevator, along with two grain doors per car. A grain door was usually two sets of three 2x12s, marked with the railroad's name (they were the property of the railroad, not the elevator). It was the responsibility of the elevator to attach the doors, by nailing them to the car liner. Once the doors were on the car, the elevator would fill the car with grain via a long pipe running out of the side of the elevator. (most boxcars had lines indicating the fill line for various types of grain). Once the car was full, the elevator would call the railroad, which would pick up the car, weigh it at the nearest scale, and bill the elevator.

Unloading boxcars full of bulk grain depended on where it was going. At very small facilities the cars were emptied by hand - two guys and shovels. Sometimes, the grain doors were knocked out of the car and the grain allowed to spill onto the ground, from there to be shovelled into waiting trucks or bins. At larger facilities (mills, etc) there were generally three types of unloaders: grates in the floor leading to a conveyor belt, large vacuum hoses to suck the grain out of a car, and car shakers, which would elther vibrate the grain out of a car or literally lift it off the rails and wiggle it around until it was empty. These types of unloaders were ONLY found at large plants however; remember, before 1960 a man was MUCH cheaper than any sort of machinery. Once the car was cleaned of grain, the customer had to return the railroad's grain doors to them or be charged a penalty (which was kept very high, to encourage the return of the road's doors).

Kraft paper and banding doors didn't show up until the 1970s.

Quote from: rogertra on August 12, 2007, 08:31:50 PM


You quote have heard that "IHC is starting to make everything DCC ready and RP25 Wheels" but other than the 2-10-2, it hasn't happened yet and until it does, serious modellers will give them a pass.

Roger,

SERIOUS modelers know how to scratchbuild freight cars. Serious modelers know how to kitbash a 2-8-2 into a 4-4-2. Serious modelers know how to do all sorts of things, and making an IHC steam engine DCC compatible is a LOT easier than making a Bowser engine DCC compatible.

Serious modelers know that IHC steam is a great kitbashing platform for all sorts of engines, both prototype and freelanced. Almost as good as Bachmann stuff, in fact!

(serious modelers also know how to turn down flanges on pizza cutter driver wheels, using only hand tools...)

Quote from: TwinZephyr on August 07, 2007, 10:56:03 PM
The models in question would be what MDC called a "Pullman Car" (not to be confused w/ the Pullman Palace car).  It is the same as the Overland style except for the duckbill ends on the roof. 

I just picked up a wad of the 50 foot cars off Ebay, and the newer MDC releases were all called Overlands, no matter which roof the kit had in it.

Quote from: paulsafety on August 07, 2007, 04:28:00 PM

While I can't comment on whether there will be multiple numbers for each paint scheme, I took a look at several web sites to research whether there is evidence that the cars ran in pairs.

http://www.btco.net/Vehicles/Witt/ provides a wealth of detail on Baltimore Peter Witt cars and their route assignments, and has some clear photos of the cars that do not show any couplers on the front end (exception being the two 1924 cars which had a different body and door configuration).

In addition to the Peter Witt at Baltimore Streetcar Musuem, another survivor (6144) is at Seashore Trolley Museum:
http://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/national/6144.html

Hope this helps a little. 

Paul F.

Not only pairs, but triples. I just talked to my dad (a huge traction fan and longtime CERA member) and he distinctly remembers the CSL Witts in doubles and triples, especially during the evening rush in downtown Chicago. All of the cars were equipped with MU capabilities and two poles, so the cars could run in either direction with a single carman (the cars on the ends were facing different directions).

I'll be getting at least two of these cars. Onc in CSL for my dad to play with when he's visiting, and one to kitbash into an ITC 100-series car (until I can find a 280-series Suydam car!)

Quote from: Sunshine Express on August 07, 2007, 08:07:26 AM
I have acquired two Roundhouse 57ft.coaches,and I would like to know their correct title.My measurement was taken by an HO Scale Rule.
They have the old time  upraised roof,and end platforms.
Are they Harriman Cars ?
Hope you can enlighten me.

These are the MDC "OVERLAND" cars.

MDC made four lines of passenger cars: the 36' shorty "OverTON" cars, the 50' "OverLAND" cars (50' body, which is how passenger cars are measured. Apparently vestibules count, but platforms don't. Don't ask me why...), the 60'' "HARRIMAN" cars, and the 89' 'PULLMAN PALACE" cars.

Of the four lines, the Overlands are usually the most useful. They match thousands of cars built between the 1870s and 1890s, and can be used into the early 1950s. The PP cars are a bit long, and the Overton cars are a LOT short. The Harrimans sorta match SOME real Harriman cars, especially the baggage car.

Yup. When I measured out the Bachmann 2-8-0 a few months ago, Brad asked about it's use in a 2-8-2 conversion (which is how we all got started down THAT path!). I compared the model measurements I took with the IC Mike diagrams, and found out that they were a VERY good match for the first three courses of the boiler (and the running gear, which is also dead-on).

That's why I now suspect that the 942 series engines were really Harriman-Standard heavy Consolidations. Their dimensions match the IC's Harriman Mikes too perfectly (and the IC's Mikes were Harriman heavies, apparently).

Quote from: palmettoLTD82 on July 31, 2007, 06:09:51 PM
Gentlemen,

Does anyone know the smokebox diameter (in scale inches) of the Spectrum 2-8-0?  Thank you in advance for any feedback. 

Buddy Hill

81 inches.