Had to contribute something to the "record" thread, especially since you commented that you will be adding the valve gear.

The prototypes were built by Baldwin in 1912 specifically for switching in tight quarters in Baltimore, often working into industries reached from street trackage.  These engines were pretty heavy for 0-4-0Ts, 66 tons, with a 33-ton axle load; that axle load would be respectable into the Superpower era.  There were four engines originally, fitted up as oil-burners.  Two would later be rebuilt as coal-burning tender engines, and be reassigned to Philadelphia, again working in tight places there, in situations like those for which the Pennsylvania built its A5s 0-4-0s.

Some photos and comments, photos courtesy of Northeast Railfan:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/

We start by going into the B&O steam roster:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam1.html

Scrolling down the page, we go to the class C-16, the Docksides.  Clicking on engine numbers brings up photos, like these:

The first is a builder's photo at Baldwin.  Notable details to note on the engines as delivered include the older lettering style, accetyline headlights, the whistle mounted on the right side of the steam dome, the ladder that's visible on the rear of the oil bunker through the cabwindows, what looks like a wooden cab, and the lack of a platform around the stack for a man to stand on while filling the water tank at the filler ahead of the stack.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo99s.jpg

In 1938, the lettering is changed, the platform for the water filler is in place, the water filler itself is now taller and square, the headlights are electric, there are additional grabirons in certain places, the whistle looks to have been moved (but its pipe is still visible), and there are additional items added, like those towing chains for working in places where cars can't negotiate curves when they are coupled together.  On this section of the B&O, there are curves that would be more apropriate on a trolley line!

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002395

No. 97's most notable detail variation is the much smaller platform at the water filler in 1947:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo97sa.jpg

The engines were renumbered into the 890 series inthe early 1950s to clear their numbers for new diesels.  What stands out in this photo is the B&O Capitol dome emblem on the front of the engine.  This was a cast item, done in the late 1940's as a way to make sure the image of the B&O would be made plain in published photos.  The Docksides got the treatment of a road engine!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo898s.jpg

Just for the record, photos of one of the rebuilt engines in Philadelphia:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo99sa.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo99sc.jpg

Enjoy.  And just to contemplate, can you imagine a model railroad built on this theme, with lots of ancient industrial buidings, street trackage, and perhaps ships and Bachmann Peter Witts, too?

Hello, Jonathan,

I got to talk to Jerry Cain (owner of Cain's Trains, in Bunker Hill, W.Va.) the other day, and his comment about Mantua trucks like these is that they are, as noted by Bob Wrgt, press-fitted at the factory--and that pressing them apart can make them hard to get together again, or at least hard to keep together.  If they won't stay, some ACC will hold, but you may have electrical pick up problems.  If this is the course you take, or if you need to adapt other trucks, including plastic ones, you may find this link of use.

http://www.55n3.org/cars/tender_wipers/

This is from this site, which may have other tips you can use.

http://pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

Finally, Jerry at Cain's has some Mantua and other parts available; contact informatin is available through this link.

http://bunkerhilltrainclub.org/

Keep having fun!

Just had to add a little more:

General Railpictures link to the Winchester & Western; note that the road has two divisions, one in Virginia (and West Virginia), and the other in New Jersey:

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?offset=0&where=||Winchester %26 Western||||||1|||||||||||Winchester %26 Western||||||||||||||||||&newdisplay=5

This is at Clearbrook, Va., near the state line with West Virginia; Route 11 is in the background.  The passenger station for this little community used to be in that grain elevator.  There is also a preserved W&W caboose in the park in the town, to the right of the grain elevator, which is a former B&O I-1 car:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=221057&nseq=25

Behind the ice plant in Martinsburg; interchange track to the former B&O curves off at the right:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=177029&nseq=48

For years the W&W was an Alco holdout:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=172855&nseq=52

No. 527, now scrapped, was formerly a New Haven unit of the same number:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=171781&nseq=56

Finally, I will simply comment that Martinsburg is a good base to check out several tourist railroads and rail museums, including operating steam and traction.  Three of these--the Potomac Eagle in Romney, W.Va., the Western Maryland Scenic, and the East Broad Top Railroad and Coal Company--are only 90 minutes' driving time from Martinsburg.  The furthest afield for a day trip is the Strasburg Rail Road, and it's only three hours's away.

http://www.potomaceagle.info/

http://www.wmsr.com/

http://www.ebtrr.com/

Going out a little further, but no more than 3 hours' driving time:

http://www.baltimorestreetcar.org/

http://www.dctrolley.org/

http://strasburgrailroad.com/

http://www.borail.org/

Just 25 miles to the north, in Hagerstown, Md.:

http://www.roundhouse.org/index.shtml

http://sites.google.com/site/westernmaryland202/

Enjoy.

Dear Rye;

Haven't heard anything in a little while; anything to report?

Did a little more checking, and found the website for the manufacturer.

http://hobby.keyence.co.jp/english/index.html

That helicopter may prove valuable at keeping my crazy cats away from the trains!

Wonder how this fellow in what looks like Japan did this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_so_IKC4k4

http://www.youtube.com/user/jordani410

Do we now need to represent the Teamsters among the dispatchers, engineers, firemen, brakemen, and conductors in HO scale?

Enjoy.

Just a link to a virtual museum of this special train, in both its 1947 and 1975 versions.

http://freedomtrain.org/

Touch of trivia, for a C&O modeler:  The 1947 edition of the Freedom Train was in Charleston, W.Va. on Sept. 25, 1948, and in Huntington, W.Va., on Sept. 26, 1948.  Less than a week later, on or about October 1, 1948, Harry Truman's  campaign special ran between Ashland, Ky. and Montgomery, W.Va. (last campaign stop on this particular trip) before proceeding to Washington, DC (overnight run).

Now, how do I justify to my wife, and to me, the cost of two special trains, including what would likely be a brass model of presidential car Ferdinand Magellan?  More importantly, how do I come up with the money?

The Bachmann is right, the large scale engines are narrow guage protoypes, and wouldn't be really usable unless Bachmann were to enter the HOn3 or HOn2 1/2 field.  However, there were a lot of smaller standard gauge prototypes that might fit the bill of what you would like to see; they were discussed (and perhaps will continue to be discussed) on this thread:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12286.0.html

Have fun.

Jonathan,

I hope I haven't sounded too pompous about this, as you already know a great deal about these older models.  It's just that I hope this sort of thing can be sort of a reference for others who also like to work on these beasties.

You were also asking about how you might reduce the sound levels even further.  I can't guarentee these ideas will work, but they may be of some help.

Locomotive noise, as I would describe it, has two major components.  One is the primary noise itself, such as wheels running on rail, gears grinding or just meshing, bearing noise (if it squeaks, get out the oil), and secondary or amplifying effects, as you have observed in the case of your boiler shell.

Primary noise basically comes from parts moving or scraping against each other.  The best way to reduce this is to make sure the parts mesh or otherwise interact smoothly.  Proper fit is important, as are smooth working surfaces and proper lubrication.  A prototype steamer illustrates this this with the noises its rods make.  A newly shopped engine, or one with roller bearing rods, has almost no rod noise because everything is fitted with minimal play or slop.  This is in strong contrast to an engine with worn rod bearings, as it moves along with a very audible clunka-clunk-clunka-clunk-clunka-clunk that can often be heard in all running conditions, but is most pronounced when drifting or coasting.

The amplifying effects come from parts that resonate and otherwise amplify the sounds from primariy sources.  This is what can happen with boiler shells of relatively hard metal, such as Zamac.  As noted, such a shell can actually "ring" like a bell.  Any primary vibration in the engine is thus amplified, sometimes with amazing results.  Cures for this can include isolating the ringing amplifyer from the vibration source (fiber washers and rubber tape in the smokebox saddle for your Mike), deadening the ringing component by mating it with other materals to dampen the vibrations (rubber or even additional weight, such as a bismuth alloy called Cerro-Bend, which can be had in alloys that melt at the temperature of hot water), or making things like the superstructure from materials that are accoustically "dead," which is to say they absorb vibrations themselves, and don't "ring" (lead vs. Zamac in the case of some older Carey superstructures).

In the case of your Mike, you seem to have parts that mate well, and I assume you've used proper lubrication.  You also have apparently used  an enclosed replacement motor, and these are usually quieter than an open-frame job.  What remains is likely gear noise (although this should be minimal with one of the gears in brass and the other in what is likely nylon), with whatever noise is in the motor itself, combined with whatever amplifyng effects the shell itself may still be contributing (some vibrations may still be getting through your isolating rubber).  My suggestions would be to first add a little tape or rubber inside the shell to dampen whatever vibrations may still be getting through (this is the easiest job, by the way), of course making sure the motor still has adquate air space.  As an experiment, I would also try a good heavy lubricant on the gears, like the Vaseline mentioned above (although this is in some ways like the practice shady car mechanics used to use of adding sawdust into badly worn transmissions and differentals to disguise the grinding they would make).  A little cover over the gears, as you suggested, could also help by not letting sound get out.  Finally, some more running time may help, as gears and other parts wear into each other as they "break in."

Good luck on what you're trying to do; let us know how things work out.

Finally, I have to reply to Woody about Bowser NYC K-11s.

The engine I got to work on was a later version, with the DC-71 motor mounted on its side.  Buzzing like a bee--oh, yes!  Funny thing, this passenger engine had the best low-speed characteristics of anything I had seen, including any switchers we had, and would be as good as anything out today except that it had no flywheel.  I think this came from the very fat worm that Bowser used, which would have had an great deal of gear reduction.  This worm was mounted on its own shaft which ran in a pair of die-cast pillow blocks; this system, which Bowser also used in its 4-6-6-4s, was claimed to practically guarentee correct gear mesh.

Your comments about a Hobbytown FT set also reminded me of a story about another of the firm's products, a replacement drive for Athearn's GP7.  This drive was said to have a large flywheel that took up much of the space in the cab of the Geep, and that some wise guy painted a candy-stripe pattern on the outer edge.  This was visible through the cab windows, and the effect as the wheel turned was said to be "psychadelic!"

I have a Hobbytown Alco PA to put together someday, and all that metal in it, including all the gears and shafts (and didn't those gears come from Boston Gear Works?), make me think that, like their prototypes, Hobbytown's diesels should be considered "honorary" (model) steam olcomotives. . .

Jonathan;

Glad the sound-deadening tips started out so well.  Here are some ideas that may help you and other obsessed with modeling locomotives the old-fashioned way.  As this is intended as something of a reference, it will cover some tuning tips you undoubtedly already are using.

We'll start with a bit of philosophy, for lack of a better term.  The most important thing is to give yourself the invaluable and essential gifts of patience and time.  Atlas Tool Company's older plastic structure kits, such as for the station and the lumber yard, admonish the builder "to take your time and get your money's worth."  The actual time taken to build these and other kits and projects is recreation time; why not take a little longer to get it right?  In this respect, I must strongly agree with the Atlas commentary.  This is a liesure activity; why rush it?

The second one is to try to have a good working space.  The late Bill Schopp of RMC loco conversion and construction fame, once advocated that the best sort of workbench was one that was kind of high, like a watchmaker's bench (which Schopp was).  This enabled him to look at the work at eye level much of the time with a minimum of bending, and enabled him to hold up models (and watches) by resting his ams on the bench, and not relying entirely on his muscles, which did wonders for reducing fatigue, which in turn helped reduce the chances of dropping things.

You undoubtedly already know that locomotive mechanism construction essentially is adding parts, one at a time, making sure each new part turns freely, and than adding the nest part or pair of parts, and repeating the procdess.  A good way to do this is to test roll a mechanism during this process on a piece of track, without motor or gears, relying on feel as much as sight to look for binds.  A refinement of this is to use a piese of glass, which is slipperier than track.  If such a mechanism will roll without binds, with just the weight of its frame, it will roll nicely with the motor and gears pushing it.

Gear mesh is important.  The gears should mesh tightly enough to minimize play, but not so tightly as to be a source of uneeded friction.  Mantua Metal Products used to advise in their instruction sheets that the recommended clearance was about the thickness of a of a sheet of paper between worm and worm gear, or between gear teeth.  This practice would also maximuze gear life by reducing grinding (which you get if setting too deep) and minimizing the chances of gear stripping (if set too shallow).  There were also tricks for motor tuning (this was with open-frame motors), which revolved about keeping brushes in good condition, the commutator clean, and minimizing end play in the motor itself.  I confess, I didn't quite figure out how to reduce motor play properly, and some had quite a bit of it.

Lubrication was important (and still is).  The basic principle of oiling sparingly was and is important, the main differnce being the modern lubricants that are now available.  It used to be we used petroleum jelly (such as Vaseline) for gear grease, and sewing machine oil for rotating bearings, both of which are much thicker and heavier that the special oils and greases we now have available.

This post is looking a bit long, so I'll continue it in a second section.

Thank you for the kind words.

When you come, you will also have to check out, if possible, the action on the local shortline, Winchester & Western.  Power is GP9s, some in high hoods, a couple of homemade slugs (from Alco RS-27s?), and a recently purchased SD9.  Trackage for this road in this area includes its original line to a sand mine from Winchester to Gore, Va., and a portion of the former Cumberland Valley Railroad from Winchester to Williamsport, Md., later part of the PRR and Conrail.  This ex-PRR/CV track still has rail in it rolled in 1917!

Just north of Martinsburg, perhaps 2 miles from the roundhouse in town; US Route 11 is just behind the photographer:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=300380&nseq=0

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=139165&nseq=2

Bunker Hill, W.Va., about 15 miles south of Martinsburg; photo near an antique mall in this town.  The antique mall sometimes has old train stuff inside.  Route 11 is beyond the trailer and other things in the background.  Route 11, also called the Valley Pike, is the route Stonewall Jackson used in his Great Locomotive Raid in 1861, in which he stole locomotives from the B&O and had them transported by highway to be placed on southern rails in Winchester.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=157831&nseq=5

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144686&nseq=1

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=87791&nseq=7

CSX goes to Winchester, too, on the former Winchester & Potomac Railroad that branches off at Harpers Ferry.  This was the location of one of the first interchanges between two railroads, predating the Civil War.  This line also crosses the Norfolk Southern on a diamond at Charles Town, and passes an ancient stone station in Summit Point, W.Va.  The station in Winchester is classy, too.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=163869&nseq=0

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=139165&nseq=2

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=281352&nseq=0

Local Model Railroad club:

http://www.bunkerhilltrainclub.org/

Enjoy.

My experience with a club's Bowser K-11 suggests the possibility that you may simply be getting resonance in the boiler casting.  That 4-6-2's mechanism ran freely on a glass sheet, and was nice and quiet running without the boiler, but when the boiler was added, we got a loud buzzing sound.  Nothing seemed to be touching internally (this model didn't have a backhead, and the motor--which was mounted on its side in this engine--came into the cab), yet the noise persisted.  Tapping on the boiler shell revealed the same "tone;" the thing had a resonance in it.  Essentially, it rang like a bell!  In doing so, it amplified all the noises in the engine like a resonator box.  Some electrical tape applied in the shell and in other key locations to dampen the vibrations helped considerably.

I won't guarentee this is what you have, but it may be something to look at.

Isn't this fun?

This list would also have to include the S-160, otherwise known as the GI 2-8-0 and its postwar variants.  Thousands were built, and they literally ran in locations all around the world, including a number of places in the USA.  A wartime engine (Great Smokey Mountain 1702) and a postwar version (Tennessee Valley 610) run today, along with a WWI "Pershing" predecessor (Texas State 300).  Such a model would likely be an international seller!

An earlier discussion of this engine is here:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12534.0.html

Grrr, most of the HAER links cut out after a certain amount of time.  You'll have to look on your own after going onto the main page. but suggested search inquiries would be Baltimore & Ohio with the addition of town names, including Keyser, Cumberland, Martinsburg, Wheeling, and Grafton.

This engine would have been at least at Grafton and Keyser, and perhaps Martinsburg, too, and was built at Mt. Claire:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12783.0.html

Nearly forgot these:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hh:85:./temp/~ammem_X5nl::

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hh:88:./temp/~ammem_X5nl: