The "CRANKS" you refer to or hand brakes all cars freight and passenger as well as locomotives are required to be equipped with them. In some cases it may be a wheel, they come in many shapes and sizes.

They are designed to be used mainly to hold cars or units stationary after being left on a track. Units were never supposed to be "kicked" anywhere and stopped by the use of the hand brake, many have been.

Freight cars being switched and moving on their own momentum are stopped by the use of hand brakes every day of the year.

However, under emergency conditions they could be used to stop a rolling car or unit. that has started rolling on its own. They have been used just for that purpose many thousands of times.

The hand brake or brakes may not stop something real heavy that is moving if on a real steep grade. In other words the tonnage might have overpowered the available braking power of the cars or equipment, whether it is the air brakes or the mechanical brakes, on the grade.

That is often referred to as a runaway.

So now there are three distinctly different things that have refferred to in this thread.

1. The Communication Whistle.
2. The Emergency Brake Valve.
3. The Hand Operated Brake.

Redtail67

I want to try to correct a misunderstanding about the "CORD" in passenger equipment and the "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" in the same cars.

1. The over head cord is a communication whistle ussed to send wiste signals directy to the cab of the controlling locomotive in passenger service.
is was to provide a means for the Conductor to tll the Engineer to "STOP" "PROCEEED" "STOP AT NEXT STATION" bring attention to upcoming "MEET AT NEXT STATION" and so on. Remember this device was implemented long before "RADIO" and is still in use today. However, the current Operating rules permit the use of RADIO in place of the communicating whistle.

This whistle is located on the floor along in front of the engineer with the ATS  and ATC whistles.

2. The "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" is FRA Requirement on all Locomotives Passenger Cars and Cabooses. It provides all crew members as well as the general public on passenger trains a direct means of stopping the train. If that valve is used all cars and locomotives will apply their air brakes into emegerncy postion and stiop the train.

I feel there was confusion about what each one was and what they did.

Redtail67

Yampa Bob and All:

Bob that was going to be one of the next questions I had :

1. How too weigh down the  cars?

This board is very helpfull to newcomers like me. Thanks to all for the wealth of information.


Redtail67

Did my google and low and behold found one of the sream engines at Stone Mountain Park  the Red River and Gulf No. 104 a Baldwin 4-4-0 built 1919 with 60 inch drivers  weighs 89,000 lbs.

She was minus the Brass Number Plate that was on it the last time I saw it and weathered badly.

She was bright colored and all brass was polished by that watchman. It says it is "stored" at the Stone Mountain Park.

I wonder what happened to the others.

redtail67

The Red River and Gulf as a Forestry Museum Great hope they still haver those Engines they were real beauties in what looked to be excellent shape.

That railroad like most was started with grand plans to go to New Orleans but they did not make it. The did have quite an operation at one time operating several passenger trains and local freights.

I will google it up and the next time I go home I might just go to that museum.

Thanks for the info Ken
Redtail67

The engine that fell from the mountain was a shay and that is all i remember. It belonged to one of the many logging companies that were clear cutting the mountains of Oregon.

Bob:

I have looked every where for this book. I have a hard time trying to know what I need I simply cannot comprehend the curveture stuff.

A book like that showing me in black and white would be a great asset.

I have read other places about this book but nobody knows where to get it.

Redtail67

Bob:

This have found thread is very informative for a newcomer such as myself. I have been fighting the temptation to buy the biggest and baddest Controller, one that will even sing to you.

This thread makes me pause and "THINK" which is very good. What do I really need verses what do I want?

It is the threads of this nature that help hopeless newcomers as myself learn to avoid mistakes.

I am personaly gratefull to all on this board that have threads out like this. Ones that help people make rational practical decisions. I have wisely chosen to listen and read all I can before I jump into it. The people on this board have already saved me from some very costly mistakes both monetarily and timewise.

So while most of you guys are old hands at this and can do this stuff blindfolded do not forget the "RUBES" we do appreciated learning fron you guys.

Redtail67

Heres another!

I had an old railroad history book that made reference to an logging engine that fell down the mountain in 1907 and no attempt was made at recovery because it was totaly destroyed. The mountain was two miles out of Clatskannie, Orgeon. (mispelled I am sure) My brother just happened to live there.

In 1968 I went out on vacation got in his truck found the mountain and went looking for the engine. I found what remained right where the book said it was. This book was written about 1930 and the wreck happened in 1907.Took two hours to get to bottom of a very rugged incline and there were the remains with the number plate still attached to shattered and rusted out remains.

I went back to my brothers house and got some tools and went back and removed the brass plate as I started up the mountain some 16 hours had elaped and it was way after dark. My brother had called out the search and rescue thinking I was lost.

The weather turned cold and rainy and I was miserable and exhausted I had to abandon the plate about halfway up. I could not get it loose from some of the boiler skin and just broke it off and it was heavy.

So to this day the remains of the wreck are probably still there everything rotten and decayed excepte the big steel such as wheels rods etc. The brass plate unless some hunter has found it I bet is laying where I dropped it.

redtail67

I recall several times that the BN had "LOST" some locomtives for over 2 months. They were interchanged to a foreign line in dedicated intermodal service and had not been seen since. Bullietins were issued to train and engine crews to be on the lookout for these units and if seen contact the dispatching office in Ft. Worth.

Believe it or not it was not an uncomman occurrence as the other roads would steal this units to provide power for trains when the were short on servicable units. The the railroads started a means to payback the home roads by horspower hours they held the units captive.

Heres a tidbit for you, in the mid 1960s I was a railfan as well as a Railroad Engineer and as such read a lot of railroad history. I had come across a story on the Red River and Gulf Railroad out of Long Leaf, Louisiana and decided to take a trip over there and see if I could find any of its remains.

I drove over to a siding off the MP where this road linked up to them. I stated walking through the woods and came up on their old Main Line I believe it was 65 lb rail. Trees were growing between the ties two feet thick.

I walked for I think about a mile an out of those pines shines a roundhouse abvouy 6  stalls if I remember correctly. I could not believe my eyes there were two beautiful steam engines one with wooden cab and diamond stack and a dinky deisel maybe 20 tons. The Steam Engines were painted and all brass was polished brite.

When I got up on the wooden cab Steamer and old Negro man with a shotgun in hand stopped me. He asked just "What the H#$$" did I think I was doing. I got down as instructed and we started talking. He told me that his daddy and now him were paid by the owners of the old railroad to guard the railroad property.

I begged him for a bell or whistle like the idiot I was and of course he refused but he did give me the monthly inspection form off the "Dinky" which I gladly accepted as well as one other item that I can not recall.

I believe the monthly inspection was dated in 1956 that would have been her last as the Road went into banckruptcy about that time.

I went backh several times and visited with that guy and as far as I know those Engines track and all are still there just out in woods.

On one of my last visits I came out of the woods and there were two Louisiana Midland Saddle Tank Steam Engines loaded on flats that had been set out at that siding account problems with the flat cars. I learned later that they were on there way to a Museum or Steam Tourist Road in Arkansas.

I used to go all over East Texas and louisiana looking fore that kind of stuff as there were many logging roads that been in the area. I found quite a few old shays some in pretty good shape a few 2-6-0 most have gone to scrap now and some were taken by Museums.

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.

Redtail67

Yampa Bob:

More than likely early 1950 era you were being pulled by EMD F3 Units Santa Fe 16-100 Class Its possible they might have been ATSF 300-325 Class F7.

I have the orginal Factory EMD Operating Manuals for all those Classes of engines.

had friend that had a pack of bear hounds and he used the shock collars on them the break them from running deer or elk. One day i borrowed it to put on a dog i had, an australian sheperd, to attempt to break him from chasing cars.

Well this dang dog was so determined that i would shock him and shock him. You could hold down the button and continuously shock untill you let off the button.

Finaly I would shock that stubborn beast to the ground and he would roll flop jump  scream and then I would let him up and away that son of a &%* would go after the car. I never broke him and he sure as the devil got killed by one.

You may have the same type of dog, he may just be so determined to go to wherever or to vist old friends, that short of killing him with high voltagre nothing will stop him.

ATSF F Units all Classes they were real beauties and if maintained were great units.

Just a little info the CF-7 were a piece of junk they were built in the Cleburne Texas shops from wrecked F units and units that had the bodies rusted out and so on. They tried to convert units designed for freight and passenger service to units that could do double duty as yard switchers and freight service. Needless to say the units were a big flop. They over looked the control stands were setup for a whole different configuration and they were miserable for engineers to run. The same goes for the converted units that were slugs, just traction motors, with a large concrete box poured in the car body to make up for the lose of the weight of the engines. The very first engine was the 2649 and I ran it the first time it came down for service the ATSF gave us engineers an extention throttle and brake handles for these junkers (homemade I might add) and I still have a couple in the garage. Everytime I see them I laugh about how big a fiasco those units were.

As for the U33G Units I ran many, they were a constant speed unit, when the throttle was placed into run 1 they sped up to run 8. Same thing in dynamic. They were latter modified to go up in engine speed in steps I believe it was run 3 then run 5 then Run 8. They were very powerfull units but like most of the GE Units most engineers did not like them. They were filthy because of the exhaust did not burn claen and because of the smoke from them and all GE units they were banned from the State of California.

The SD45 was an extremly powerfull Unit but very difficult to maintain as they were a totaly different engine casting. They had one more major design flaw, they would go into "HARMONIC ROCK" between 10-20 MPH and again at 71 MPH or so, and literaly rock off the track and turn over.  ATSF had several derailments and after one on the Passenger Train. They took action after the passenger train incident as the FRA got into it . EMD and ATSF along with FRA came up with the idea of the struts. I had several rock with me lifting off the rails at 71 MPH and scared the fire out me but luckily none flipped on over. Yopu would run through those speeds as fast as you could and never hold them there regardless of the max speed of track or train.

The railroad lowered the horses and put the struts on the trucks to keep the units from rocking and came around with the SD40-2 one of the best units ever built and it was loved by almost every engineer than ran one.

By they way the dash 2 units were equipped with computerized control moduels  which allowed roundhouse personell to pull a moduel out  and put another in say for bad orde wheel slip or engine speed control and they had the truck mounted shocks or struts to hold down the units and keep them from the harmonic rock.

just thought i would throw that into to thread.

same here..they might have been doing monthly upkeep or updating site.

I know they had them as far back as 1900 and I also know it was mandated by Law and still is. I do not know excactly when it was mandated by Law but along time ago.