Quote from: Tomcat on November 13, 2007, 02:55:50 PM
Folks, there are rumours (just heard from a Friend on the phone who got word about this from the PSC people) that PSC/MMI will bring out the West Side No. 14 and 15 and probably as well the No. 7 and 8 Three Truck Shays.

These are shown on the PCS/MMI website so it is not just rumour.

To my mind it re-enforces the idea that Bachmann's next ON30 geared loco, and possibly their next ON30  loco, will be a Heisler. I doubt that they will want to duplicate models, although MMI are in a different price bracket. A new two truck Shay is still a possibility, but I suspect that they would until well after the MMI 3 truck was out so as not to have too many competing Shays.

Incidently the West Side Shays #14 and #15 are reasonably similar to the Baden Copper (Chile) 3 truck Shays, which were 30 inch gauge locos.

Hamish

Quote from: Matt Bumgarner on November 10, 2007, 04:24:50 PM
If I were the CFO, I would look at past history and what the Ten-Wheeler did for making G-scale so popular. Considering that the drawings, etc for the loco and rolling stock already exist, I think I would push along these lines for my next On30 foray.
Matt Bumgarner

The 4-6-0 has been the main train set loco in Large Scale and is relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other large Scale locos. Thus it has been a very popular starter  loco . That role in ON30 has been taken by the 2-6-0, with similar results to that of the 4-6-0 in Large Scale. Are you proposing replacing the 2-6-0 with a 4-6-0? I am not sure that Bachmann would want to spend the money involved as long as the 2-6-0 is still selling. As an additional loco it would not have the train set role and would probably have to be relatively more expensive. Given this it would be performing a different role, and the Large Scale  experience would be no guide as to its success.

Hamish 

I agree a larger 2 truck Shay would be nice but I would expect the order to be a Heisler and then a 3 truck Shay before another 2 truck, simply because no versions have been done.

Protoype 30 inch gauge 2 truck Shays were made up to about 42 tons and 30 inch gauge 3 truck Shays up to about 60 tons, so there is plenty of choice for models that would appeal to both those modelling 3 foot and those modelling 30 inch gauge roads.

Hamish

Sorry. the above post was meant for the Shay thread.

Hamish

I agree a larger 2 truck Shay would be nice but I would expect the order to be a Heisler and then a 3 truck Shay before another 2 truck, simply because no versions have been done.

Protoype 30 inch gauge 2 truck Shays were made up to about 42 tons and 30 inch gauge 3 truck Shays up to about 60 tons, so there is plenty of choice for models that would appeal to both those modelling 3 foot and those modelling 30 inch gauge roads.

Hamish

The Thomas narrow gauge locos are based on Talyllyn Railway prototypes (mainly) and some Ffestiniog. The mountain locos are based on Snowdon Mountain Railway prototypes. There are kits available for quite a few of the locos from a number of makers but no ready to run British outline narrow gauge.

I would have thought that there might be scope for a British maker to make a ready to run range of narrow gauge prototypes offering both prototype and Thomas versions of the locos. A difficulty for Bachmann doing this is that they don't have the UK rights for Thomas. Hornby has the UK rights, but not the US ones so neither company could cover the prototype market and the Thomas market in both the US and UK. This might make it less likely that either company would attempt such a range.

If such a range were introduced it would probably be in OO9 or possibly O16.5. OO9 is Britsh OO scale (1:76) running on 9mm (N) gauge track. O9 is British O scale (1:4.5) running on 16.5mm (HO) gauge track. These are the two main British narrow gauge combinations. OO9 equals 2 foot 3 inch gauge, which coincidently is the gauge of the Talyllyn Railway. (O16.5 is about 2 foot 4 inches).

Bachmann USA probably wouldn't introduce such a range unless Bachmann UK wanted a prototype narrow gauge range in which case Thomas versions might be made.

I would love to see a ready to run British outline narrow gauge range, but I don't really expect to see it happen.

Hamish

A good starting point for information on the WW1 light railways is http://www.wdlr.org.uk/WDLR/

This thread is drifting a bit into personal wish lists and away from its focus of what Bachmann should make to maximise profit. As I see it the ideal loco for Bachmann is one that is popular with americans but also has appeal to others, is plausible as a 30 inch gauge loco (although may not be a model of an actual 30 inch gauge loco), as this picks up those who regard their layout as30 inch as well as those regarding their layouts as 3 foot or 2 foot, one that fits in well with Bachmann's existing range and is not too big as many ON30 layouts are small with tight curves. While the WW1 locos meet many of these criteria how popular they would be with americans I am not sure about, they seem to be better known in the UK and europe, probably because they were extensively used on anarrow gauge lines there after ww1 and some are preserved.

The Bachmann 4-4-0 shows this thinking, a type popular with americans, a prototype with an american connection, (close to the Mt gretna locos) but also similar to exported locos, and small so as to look right with existing products. While it is not the choice of every-one  it may well have a wider appeal than a larger 4-4-0 that would only be suitable as an american 3 foot gauge loco and might have trouble with tight curves.

MMI is producing larger, specifically 3 foot gauge locos but their operation is different from Bachmann's, higher priced, smaller production runs of limited edittions - they can afford to concentrate on one market segment (provided it is a reasonable size).

A Heisler seems to me to fit the above criteria well, what else might? What different critweria would also maximise the potential market for a loco?

Hamish

ASIANLIFE
I believe some ex WW1 locos were regauged to 30 inch so I see them as suitable, but probably not familiar enough to US buyers.

I haven't bought any of the OZSTEAM stuff although I too am considering some of the kits - I have seen on other lists nice things posted about them.

Hamish

Sorry again, not my afternoon. I don't know why the face appeared, i meant that the Porters were 8 tons.

Hamish

Sorry, hit the wrong button just as I had stated.

To continue

Asian Life mentioned a larger non tender 4-6-0 or 2-6-2, was this a reference to the WW1 2 foot gauge locos? If so the 2-6-2t would be the better bet as it was operated by the USA army (made by Baldwin but similar to the ALCOs) as well as the Britsh and  French Armies and various postwar operaters. The US army did not I think have any Baldwin 4-6-0ts and I expect that a USA army lettered version would be desirable for the US market. Despite the wheel arrangement these are  smallish locos, (about 16 tons) between the Porters (about and the Forney (28). They could be a good choice, but they are not that well known in the USA. The larger 4-6-0 tender locos mentioned by Chatz473 are better known in the USA but do not really fit the stated Bachmann policy of only making locos plausible for 30 inch gauge (they are really 3 foot only gauge locos) and would be rather large compared to the other Bachmann offerings.

Another possibility is an outside frame 2-6-2 tender loco similar to one of the Maine locos, these are well known in the USA and similar locos were exported to a number of countries in various gauges, including 30 inch. Should appeal to Maine modellers as a companion to the Forney and would look well with the 2-8-0 and the new 4-4-0.

However if I was Bachmann I think my next loco would be a Heisler. Well known and popular in the USA and there were at least two 30 inch gauge examples (Lukens steel).  A 3 truck Shay would probably be the alernative, also very well known and there were, in Chile, 60 ton 3 truck Shays on 30 inch gauge track.. Both of these should have wide appeal, but as a (granted  very different) Shay already exists the Heisler would seem the choice for the next loco. The Maine 2-6-2 would be the third choice, for the reasons I mentioned above.

I am not Bachmann, so who knows? but I would not be surprised to see the 3 locos mentioned above appear in the next hald dozen years or so. My personal choice, a "Puffing Billy"  2-6-2 tank from Australia . However I can't see Bachmann making these as they are not North American, or well known there, despite being designed by Baldwin and of typical American appearance.

Hamish

Asian Life referred to a larger non

For those interested in the picture posted by steam freak see http://www.gearedsteam.com/heisler/images_a.htm

Hamish

Quote from: r.cprmier on October 27, 2007, 11:14:02 PM
They ran on DC?  Off of the wire?  Why?  That would be a horrible way to get power, as AC can travel farther than DC over greater distances, and to run DC via catenary would have required some pretty expensive components. 

Rich 

The Milwaukee Road electrified at 3000v DC from the wires. Many sources state this , for example seewww.milwelectric.org/HistoryPhotoArchive/history-home-060800.htm

(You will need to scroll down a bit). As that source makes clear AC was distributed to substations that sent DC to the wires. Such systems, at 1500 or 3000v DC were and still are quite common throughout the world.

Hamish

The Penn Central owned the Boston and Albany from 1968 and the New Haven from 1969. Whether Penn Central lettered equipment was used on these routes by 1970 I do not know, does any-one?. Although the Boston and Albany was owned by the New York Central prior to 1968 the Boston and Albany name was used throught the NYC ownership period.

To clarify the situation re the Grand Trunk, after the absorbtion into the  Canadian National (1923),  the line in the USA was a subsidiary of the Canadian National. Locos lettered both for the Grand Trunk and Canadian National  operated on the route.

Hamish

The New York Central Railroad (NYC) did operate in New England, connecting Boston to Albany (New York State).  Other operations of the NYC were outside New England (New York City to Albany and Chicago for example). In 1968 the NYC merged with the Pennsylvania Railroad to become the Penn Central Railroad and in 1969 the New York, New Haven and Hartford (as mentioned by thirdrail a major New England railroad)joined the Penn Central.

The Grand Trunk Railroad did operate in New England but before the period you are interested in. In 1923 it became merged into the Canadian National Railroad. The Grands Trunk Western was a separate operation and did not include New England.

Hamish