One hour Documentary tonight on the History Channel. It might be of interest to some of you.

Redtail67

newfiegod:

I am new to model railroads just as your are as a matter of fact my first order of track and supplies should arrive today. I have studied and have read every thing I could in an attempt to make a rational decision as to what I needed.

The people on this board have given you some solid advice.  Listen to them and learn. They also have some excellent post on this board covering such things as coupler updates and other things you will surely need to know. Bookmark this page as it will be a great source of information for you as it has been for me.

You will be well served in my opinion to go with the Bachmann DCC controller right off the bat. If you decide to enlarge and really get into this you already have a controller that is capable. If not it will still do the DC.

I know what you are going through with the decisions I nearly drove myself crazy. However, the best advice was jump in to it with a basic setup 4x8 with a DCC capable controller and see what happens to your enthuisiasm.

I had absolutely no idea of the unlimited potiential available, then I got a Walthers reference catalog and a Bachmann catalog. I looked all over the internet at various layouts and as you were told earlier the sky is the limit (aka "size of wallet"...lol

I will never build on the scale as others on this board but I plan to have fun with my grandson. Thats is what is important, having fun on your budget, and dreaming of one heck of a fantastic layout.

One can always dream.

So best wishes to you and I hope you have fun.

Redtail67

Mr. Bachmann:

I am new to this board and to model railroading and I have wondered why Bachmann does not ahve diagram for all their engines posted. It would help newcomers like me with parts assembly and wiring. It would be an extremly valuble resourse for your customers.

Just my two cents.

Redtail67

now you tell me at age 60...lol what am I going to do with a "chick"

Just a note about wheels with ribs on the back:

While infrequent it was not uncommon to see wheels with ribs on the back well in the 1980's. I also would not doubt that some are still out there on pulpwood and log cars.

Redtail67

Wrote a big long winded answer and tried to post it and i had timed out....lol

Well here it is No the FRA does not write the rules I can not recall the specific name of the body. I know it as the National Rules Committee. It is a body compsed of the nations railroads Rules Department representatives.

The write, change, delete and or add to any and all rules on the roads in the US.

The FRA has an approval role in the formulation of the rules they can suggest and in some cases mandate rule changes and or additions.

At the request of the BLE I was involved in reviewing and suggesting some rule changes in the 1980s'. The roads had for years been letting the Unions participate but we had no final say.

I had been a dedicated student of the rules since I hired out and was fascinated as how the rules worked together and I wanted to learn how it all came about. My position as an engineer required a thorough understanding of these rules as well as my being a Union representative for 30 years.

I had been certified and accepted by several courts as an Expert on the Rules as it was required to be so accepted to testify in court both for and against the carrier.

Also as a note about the right of way part of this thread. It is the responsibility of the railroads to fence all right of way to prevent access of stock to the tracks. This started because of many wrecks and resulted in many deaths when trains struck livestock and derailed.

The railroads were required to fence the stock off their tracks and provide means for stock to access other pastures on the other side. They pay for it and maintain it. If stock gets killed on the right of way they pay the rancher and they are liable if the train derails and injures anyone or for damages.

Did you know that the orginal telegraph poles were waist high or so? They were torn down by migrating herds of buffalo and the roads raised them to a standard height of 30 feet I think. This was to clear wagons and horseback riders. Later the cattle and sheep herds. There is a story on the C&S of 5 miles of wire being torn down by buffaloe moving south to Texas between Clayton, NM and Des Moines NM. When I left the railrod there were still about 15 of the orginal waist high poles with insulators attached at Des Moines.

Redtail67

Steam Engines and their tenders were matched in number when they were placed into service.

The number on the Engine was the only number used in identification of the train for operational purposes.

the number of thye tender was just that, a number just like on a boxcar to identify a specific tender. This number was recorded when work was performed on it as well as for locating it. As it was reported in a train consist.

It was possible, and happened no telling how many times, that an Engine would be operated without the matching numbered Tender. The tender mighht be bad order and work would have to be performed on it at the roundhouse. The Engine would be placed into service with another tender if available and later they would be placed back together.

Like someone stated before some roads numbered their tender and engine in numbers under the window of the unit and large nubers across the tender others had only number boards on the engines and large numbers on the tender. Then some had the numbers on the tender in other places and small in scale.

It was left up to the road how they numbered their tenders like someone said they just had them in a series similar to locomotives today.

However all locomotives were required by Rule Book  in effect to have the numbers on the front of every locomotive and roads adopted a number board on both sides on the front.

This code of rules, the first form of uniform regulation of the railroads was created by and enforced by the roads themselves. There was the Uniform Code (The CB&Q adopted it), The Standard Code (ATSF adopeted it), The Consolidated Code (The Missouri Pacific adopted it) and other Roads chose which one they wanted.

Each Code had certain Rules that the Railroad could not vary from other rules had variations that each road was free to select just what rule they wanted. The differences were in wording and interpretation.

The roads did this in an effort to prempt federal intervention however the rising death tols of workers as well as passengers brought in the government to ride shotgun on the roads and the implementation of the Rules governing their operations.

The governing body over all Roads rules exist today as well as the various Codes that thye roads use. The main difference is that the Federal Railroad Administration and various entities have a say as well as input in the formulation and interpretation of any rule or any Code of Rules in effect.

Redtail67

SteamGene:

The vise you refer to..it looks like some I have seen for tying fishing flies. Where would I find the kind you refer t?

Redtail67

Ram and TonyD:

Thanks for your replies.

I am still waiting for the boxes...I think a mail wagon drawn by mules would have been here by now.

I am hoping that I have ones that are pretty good. The real problem is that I do not know what is or is not good. Thats why I was hoping for help in identifying them and perhaps comments as to their reliabilty and maybe their upgradabilty to DCC.

Of course they are free and if they work I will be proud to have and use them.

I plan to set up a spreadsheet of inventory of what all I have and then determine what I need. Then go to work on starting two layouts one 4x8  HO for my grandson and I. The other 4x8 maybe less in N to keep my grandson interested and involved will I build the HO layout.

Trying to learn so thanks for your help.

Redtail67

My daughter is sendeng me a box or 2 of mostly HO cars, tracks, power supply and engines. About maybe 10-12 she did not say.

I should get them tommorrow if I am lucky sent from NJ 3 days ago via UPS. I can not wait.

After I get them I would like some help as to what company made them and any input about whether they are any good.

One is a real beauty Santa Fe F, she sent a picture email, which is gonna see use for certain on my future layout.

After hearing (reading) so much about various company locomotives I am just hoping that I can idenntify them.

I plan to record any markings of course and I am wondering, if it is possible, could I post a photo here on this site if needed to help identify them.

Redtail67

I watched it at 2:00 A.M. this morning. As one who is brand spanking new to model railroads, I found it very interesting.

It dealt mostly with Lionel and their competitors when first founded and then the continued history of Lionel with mention of others.

They showed how Lionel had the better mouse trap that solved so much of the wiring problems by having the 3rd rail.

The major competitors were out of Germany. The First World War and the banning of German Products as well as American predjudice against anything German allowed Lionel to take the lead in sales and keep it for a long time. This saved them from bankrupsy also.

Then as times changed how HO scale started taking the lead in sales. This happened because the cost of 1 engine was more than a rfridgerator and in the depression very few had the money to spend on a hobby so size was reduced to bring down cost and attract a new era in model train history that was strong untill the mid 1950.

If was a very informative  show and it showcased some of the finest sets ever produced.

The earliest engines and car sets they showed were real beauties and they showed one that was considered the most detailed ever produced by Lionel and said it would easily bring $30,000 at a auction. Boy it was a real example of craftsmanship.

If you saw it what did you think of it?

Redtail67

westsidelumber12:

I think it sounds great! I am brand new and have not even gotten my track together but my and my grandsons layout will be ATSF 1950-1960's.

So I am all for you modeling one of the Great Roads I am sure you will do it justice.

Redtail67

TonyD:

This failure of locomtives to MU was very common with interchanged units or where we would pick up an old switcher to send off somewhere. It was nothing but a nightmare for operating crews. You would end up setting the unit up Dead In Train to be able to haul it.

Further, among our own roads power, this inability to MU the Units led to a "loss of available horspower for the train". If the units were not setup properly it would result in sliding wheels and sometimes derailment.

When we started interchanging entire trains with units included it really showed up when we added ATSF Units to a forein line consist that had opposite arrangment of the air hoses. This would result in the trainmen or engine crews lining up the hoses straight across as they had been taught and this would sometimes in having the independent application and release hose crossed with the sanders, or actuation lines.

This would flatten the wheels  causing you to have to set the units out or sometimes derailment.

The railroads addressed this and started making all new units built have the same pipe arrangement and they converted all that were feasible of the older units.

Frankly, because this is a modelers forum, I am surprised at your knowledge of the air brake system.

Of course if you are making a model of one of these Steam Air Brake Equipped Locomotives and you want detail that would have to be taken into account. I ran many Alco RS-1and RS-2 units and they all had this early brake on them and were not equipped with an actuating pipe. They would only MU with units of the same type.

Redtail67

Guilford Guy:

I am not familier withe operation of the DMIR. They may have in use a straight air brake system if they are a captive Rail operation. That is one that does not interchange their equipment with other lines.

I simply know of no advantage to a straight air system over the modern day brakes. One for the reason you mentioned, the bleeding down of the brakes to lessen the amount of brake force against the wheels.

It was for that very reason the straight air systems in main line operations were replaced, they were unsafe and unreliable.

Redtail67

Kicking of cars in switching operations is as common as dirt. Happens everyday in every yard in America. However, with the new found religion of the rail industry shoving everything to and from a "joint" or coupling is becoming more the norm.

The brakeman up on top was the order of the day as late as 1966-1967. Shortly after I hired out the Railroads starterd removing the running boards on top of all cars and outlawed the use of brake clubs. Many, very many,  trainmen lost their lives walking the tops of cars on moving trains.

The trainmen would by whistle signals from the engineer apply or release hand brakes on both freight and passenger trains. This was more common before the wide spread application of dynamic brakes on locomotives and well as vast improvements in the air brake systems in use on trains.

Before the dynamic brake, ie STEAM, it really took a very skilled engineer to bring any train down the mountains or any extended grade. Skill as well as guts.

They had no dynamic brake and only one air compressor, it can not be overstated just how good an Engineer had to be to run under those conditions. There was absolutely no room for error on his part.

Deisels brought dynamic brakes and multiple units with an air compressor on each, they even had air brake repeater cars, what a godsend. The design improvements in air brake equipment on cars and locomotives greatly improved overall train operational safety.

Just in case you do not know trains in the early days had no air brakes on the cars and the very first designs were of a so called straight air system witch was very unsafe and provided mediocre brakeing at best. I ran a alco RS1 equipped with the 14el brake valve. The independent brake was a straight air type and operated in the same fashion as the automatic brake for the train. That valve was a SREAM Era hold over modified to operate with the more advanced AB freight car valves. The railroads modernized most deisels in the 1950 1960 to 24 rl and the the 26 which were both very good brake valves and much more safe that anything built before.

I just read an ad for ATSF in an old newspaper that was bragging wanting passengers to take the ATSF "..our trains have "AIR BRAKES" was their cry to appeal to the traveling public.

Deaths from train wrecks were numerous and very common place in the early 1900's which prompted Congress to take action requireing Air Brakes hand brakes and a whole basket full of laws and regulations to bring about better safety standards.