Hello again everyone:

It's been a little while since I have been in touch with most of you but I haven't forgotten you and the excellent advice that you have given me since I started building my layout in 2008.  It is now about 95% complete.  The only remaining stuff to do is the wiring for the Circuitron RR crossing signals at the two RR crossings and wiring the street lights.  Everything else has been completed.

It made all the difference when I installed an 18" high panoramic backdrop around 3 sides of my model railroad layout.  It is a total length of 30'.  Made by All Scale Backdrops in Utah (note – they are in the process of moving to Boulder, Colorado), it depicts mountains, hills and forests which are typical of the eastern part of Central and Northern California.  It really adds a sense of detail and depth perception...and it is so much better than a white wall and windows in the background.  

I just posted about 30 new layout pics last night,  If you want to take a look at my Photobucket site, my site address is:

http://s584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/BradKT

To reiterate for those of who who have not seen the earlier pics that I posted, the basic theme is an industrial park, with oil refinery complex (Conoco oil refinery, storage tanks, natural gas unloading facility and tanker truck loading facility), rail yard, fire station, engine house (with overhead crane, passenger car washing station and diesel locomotive refueling station), cement plant, gas station, warehouse, construction equipment rental company, bus terminal, taxi stand, passenger station/freight depot  and truck-rail facility.

The locale is either central or Southern California...in the eastern part of the state.  The time frame is the early to mid-1970s.  The flags that I run are Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Denver and Rio Grande Western and Santa Fe.

The layout is HO scale.  The layout itself is an a "L" shape (9' x 5' on the left side and 14' x 6' on the other, with an access hatch).  There are 3 tracks.  The outer and middle tracks go around the shape of the "L" and in the rear of the layout the outer track is elevated.   The outer track curves are 28" and the middle track curves are 22."  The inner track is a large oval about 11 feet in length with 18" curves.  All three tracks are connected by switches (#6 turnouts), which allow trains to be switched back and forth between tracks (there are two turnouts at each location so the trains can be switched off of one track and onto the other...each set of two turnouts is wired into and controlled by a single Atlas switch).  All of the turnouts are powered by a separate DC transformer (also Atlas).    There is a siding and small rail yard in the middle rear of the inner oval track.  The 24" square access hatch is located inside of and on the left end of the inner oval track.  Two more lines come off the siding to the small rail yard and engine house (these are #5 turnouts).  At the front of the layout (where the controls are located), there is another siding coming off the outer track (#5 turnout), which is to allow cars to be placed on and taken off of the track.

I have also installed three sets of manually operated diesel horns.  Once any of the 3 switches is turned on, the horn(s) operates on a continuous loop until I turn it off.  Each of the 3 horns gives the dash-dash-dot-dash signal that the train is approaching a crossing and is the sound of a different type of diesel locomotive.

Although I am still running the Bachmann EZ-Command Control System with a Bachmann 5 amp booster, I have decided that I will ultimately upgrade to a Digitrax setup, but that will be done after everything else is completed.

I am very pleased with the way that things are turning out...thanks to all of you, so if any of you want to take a look, you have my photobucket site address.

Once again, thank you.  There is a part of all of you who gave me some advice in this layout...especially Yampa Bob.

Will using a more powerful DCC booster damage the DCC decoders in the engines?  I have a Bachmann EZ Command System and have Digitrax DCC decoders in my engines. 

I had always thought that I couldn't use a more powerful booster than the 5 amp Bachmann booster.

Can someone explain this a little further?

There is always some stupid person who thinks that he or she is going to beat the train at the crossing...and when they lose...THEY LOSE!

This is why light rail transportation systems in metropolitan areas should either be subways or elevated trains.  Trains that operate at street level in metropolitan areas are a magnet for stupid people.

OLD-tIMER:

I STAND CORRECTED ON THE TERMINOLOGY.

That was how I did it on my layout and it works beautifully.

I agree with what all of the previous posters have said, but I would add one thing.  I don't know how complex your layout is, but if you have a layout that features parallel tracks and your layout has switches for switching trains between those tracks like I do on my layout, then what I am posting here could be very helpful.

I also have Bachmann EZ-track switches (#5s and #6s).  At the suggestion of some of the members of the group, for those switches that were switching trains between parallel tracks, I wired them together in pairs to Atlas switch controls (the proper term is connector) so I could activate both switches at the same time with a single control.  It makes life a lot easier when you are dealing with manually operated switches...and it's easy to do.

For each pair of switches, I got a couple of Bachmann's green extension wires and cut them so that I could plug one end to the wire from each switch and connect the bare wire ends to an Atlas connector (the simple on-off one, I forget the number, but you can get one that could be used to control one, two or three pairs of switches).  I then ran a length of wire (an unused section of the green wire would suffice...or any 2-strand wire that could handle 18 volts would do, such as doorbell wire) from the Atlas connector to the AC accessories outlet of a DC transformer.  If you are running a DC layout,  no problem.  However, if you are running a DCC layout, you cannnot power Bachman switches by connecting them to either the Command Station or the 5 amp power pack because there is no terminal for powering DC accessories to connect the wire powering the switches to.  You would have to power your switches by connecting them to a DC transformer.  Just about any old one would suffice. 

The beauty of this approach if that if you have several such pairs of switches, using the Atlas connectors allows you to connect the connectors to each other (the parts to do this are included) and then you only have to make one connection to your power source (the DC transformer)...which then in turn supplies the power to all of the Atlas connectors and for all of your switches.

I positioned and mounted the Atlas connectors near my transformer...right in front of where I sat to control the trains on my layout for easy access.  You can either screw the Atlas connectors down to mount them or use double-sided tape.  You can get some excellent heavy duty double-sided tape by Scotch for $10.00 from Home Depot.

Thank you.  That explains why I am not having a problem with my Athearn engines.  The engines all face the same way in my multi-engine consists.  I'll remember that in the future.

You learn something new every day.

I did find and check the Athearn conversion chart which specifies the right couplers for various types of engines...including Athearn and Atlas. 

Between that chart and your post, my suspicions were right that I was using the wrong coupler on the Athearn SD-45s (which do require use of a medium length undershank coupler).  The FP-45s and the SD-45-2s were OK (they are Athearn Genesis). 

In addition, the Atlas locos did require a longer coupler, but they were center shank couplers. 

The coupler numbers were 37 and 38.

One last note: I have never had a problem with metal couplers causing a short circuit when I use a multi-engine consist.  I almost always run multi-engine consists.  Is this something that I should worry about?

If that is a problem that I should worry about, should I just use the  plastic McHenry couplers between the engines that came with them?

Hello again everyone:

I'd like to pick the minds of the group on this issue and get the benefit of your experience about the right Kadee coupler to use with my engines.  I know about the #5 and #14 whisker couplers for the freight and passenger cars (Athearn's passenger cars are shorter than those of other manufacturers).   

I am trying to settle on the right Kadee coupler to use with my engines, especially the longer Athearn engines...in particular the SD-45s, SD-45-2s and FP-45s.  Now that I think about it, this issue sometimes presents itself with some of my longer Atlas engines as well.

It seems to me that a coupler with a longer shank should be used...one with an underset shank that raises the knuckle slightly.  I have noticed that if I try to use an ordinary #5 or a #14 whisker coupler on the rear of one of these engines, the coupler knuckle seems to sit a little low when it comes to coupling to freight cars in particular...and can sometimes result in the engine uncoupling from the cars. 

Likewise, when it comes to the length of the coupler, would using a coupler with a longer shank help to prevent the derailing of the second engine in a 2-engine consist?

I guess the questions that I am asking are as follows:

1.  While the #5 or #14 medium length center set shank couplers are fine for your average freight cars or Athearn passenger cars, should I be using a coupler on the engines that is longer than a medium shank coupler? 

2.  If the answer to Question 1 is yes, is that also true for couplers between engines?  Every once in a while, I notice that the front wheels of the second engine in a 2 engine consist can derail coming off of a curve (these are 22", 26" or 28" radius curves) and I am wondering if the coupler is too short and is pulling the front wheels of the second engine off the track?

3.  Should I be using couplers with under set shanks on on the rear of the second engine in a 2 engine consist?  After all, you can't use spacers to raise the height of the coupler knuckle on the rear of an engine so that it lines up with the coupler on the first freight car (or passenger car)...nor do I know of any way to lower the coupler knuckle on the first car being pulled by the engine.  I don't really want to use an overset shank on one end of some of my freight cars because that means that I would be limited to only certain freight cars I could use as the first car in a train only to those which have a overset shank. 

I have been looking at the longer Kadee #21 or #31 couplers with the underset shanks for the engines and have been asking myself is this the solution to this issue?  Or is this an issue at all?

Does anyone have any experience with this issue or am I barking up the wrong tree?   Any and all suggestions would be welcome.

I do have a Kadee coupler gauge, but it seems to me that I just might be using the wrong kind of coupler on these engines.

P.S. - And by the way, if I do need to be using a coupler other than the #5 or #14, does these couplers come pre-assembled?  I hate the idea of trying to put a spring in the knuckle of an unassembled coupler.

Thanks for your responses as always guys.  I have learned a lot from you before and I am sure that I will learn a lot more from you in the future.

The one thing that I like about these discussion threads is that they do get the thinkers to come out of the woodwork and actually come up with some very creative solutions.  I understand what Jim Banner said about isolating the track.  I am still not too clear on how to make an isolated section of track go from DCC to DC and back again, but I am going to read the referenced section of the Digitrax manual.

Even if I don't make these changes now, I'm going to save this thread for further reference.

That thought did occur to me.  I have and I am thoroughly reading them before I make any final decisions.

When I talked to Circuitron about if I could do this with DCC, they told me about the method that Narrowminded just set forth.  The only drawback with that approach is that as soon as the train hits the isolated section, it just stops...there is no slow deceleration.  That's no problem for Atlas engines, but Athearn and Bachmann engines will stop instantly.  The relay then cycles and restarts and the train starts up again after a set period of time.

I am not going to tear up my layout to isolate a few sections of track on my main lines.

Jim Banner mentioned the use of transponders.  If either Jim or anyone else could explain that approach to me, I'd like to hear it.   

1.  Does the transponder go in the engine?

2a.  How is the transponder wired? 
  b.  What does the transponder hook up to?
  c.   Does the transponder react to an optical sensor (block detector) or
       what? 

3a.  What are the optical sensors (block detectors) wired to? 
   b.  A circuit board? 
   c.  Am I correct that the optical sensors operate on DC power as an     
       accessory and need a separate power source?

4.  Are the optical sensors (block detectors) mounted in the track?

I have some experience using Circuitron's crossing signals in conjunction with optical sensors mounted in the track.  If I am envisioning the transponder approach correctly, we are talking about a transponder for EACH engine in a consist, as well as for each train...which would presumably be mounted in the locomotive.  I also assume that each transponder has to be individually programmed, which is beyond the capabilities of the EZ Command System.

Couple that with the optical sensors (block detectors) to go in the track and the appropriate circuit board to wire them to...plus the power source.

I would then also have to replace the EZ Command system with a Digitrax Zephyr starter set in order to be able to program the transponders...and that assumes that I can do that with the starter set, but I am going to do a little more research before I do so.

That's my first impression about what we are talking about here and that sounds like it is way too expensive to me.  I have pretty much made up my mind that I am probably going to replace the EZ Command power supply with the Digitrax Zephyr starter set (which I understand includes both the power pack and the booster).

Thanks for the information guys, but this seems like it is just too expensive (not to mention too much work) to me just to have a few trains make 3 or 4  automated stops.  It's a nice feature and I don't knock it, but there is a question of diminishing returns to consider here.

How does the reed switch and magnet setup work?  Does anyone have any pictures or can you refer me to some information to read and to try to digest?  I am unable to picture this setup and how it works in my mind.

If you have problems posting them here, you can e-mail me at:

Bradfordtalamon@att.net

I really like the Accurail freight cars.  When they are on sale, the boxcar kits are $9.00 or so.  The sale price for hoppers is usually around $11.00.  The regular price for the kits is usually $14.00.  The RTRs are sweet and can run from $12.00 - $19.00.  I never had any problem with them and the details are very good.  They even offer renumbering decals for $3.00 per set so you can order a number of boxcars or hoppers and then renumber them.  The decals match the car colors exactly.  Check their web site and you can get some nice deals.  They always have number of cars on sale.  Accurail is my top recommendation for boxcars and covered hopper kits.  The RTRs come with metal wheels, but kits come with plastic wheels, which I always discard and replace with metal wheels.

I have some Intermountain hoppers that I really like that are a little more expensive that I got for around $25.00 apiece.

I had some problems with the 50' Athearn freight car kits which involved derailment at switches.  The RTRs and 40' car kits worked out fine.  The price is anywhere between $9.00 and $20.00.  I also really like Athearn's RTR covered hoppers, which usually run anywhere from $13.00 to $20.00. 

The one thing that I don't like about Athearn kits are their coupler boxes and covers, which do not screw on.  With the RTR kits, however, the coupler box covers do screw on.  That is a very important feature to me and that is just the voice of experience talking.

I also always replace the couplers with Kadee couplers (the #5s or the #11s) if the cars don't already have them.

When it comes to tank cars, I love Walthers and Atlas.  I have seen the price run from $13.00 on sale all the way to $28.00 (MSPR), but you can usually get them on Amazon or from several other dealers for $5.00 or so cheaper than that.  They have lots of detailing and I think that they look just as good as anybody's and far better than most..

I only have a very few Bachmann freight cars.

Anyway, that's my two cents...

If I am going to seriously consider doing this, I may very well "graduate" to a different power supply/booster system.  I have the basic Digitrax DCC decoders installed my Atlas and Athearn engines.

Would you recommed that I migrate to a Digitrax power supply/booster system?  Any recommendations that aren't prohibitively expensive?  As nice as the feature would be, there does come a point where the expense is just not worth making the trains stop 3 or 4 times on a fairly large layout.   

Is there any system made by Digitrax that could program the basic DCC decoders to make automated stops?  In other words, I am looking for something that would only act on specific decoder addresses (I think).  If I understood Jim Banner's post correctly, using the Digitrax booster would only stop all trains on the layout wherever they are whenever I stopped one at a station.  That won't work for me.  Is there any way that I could use the basic DCC decoders to do this?  Does anyone know where I can read up on this topic to get some more information? 

I hope that I don't have to replace my Digitrax decoders.  If I could program my basic Digitrax decoders to do so just by substituting a Digitrax power supply/booster system for my present Bachmann EZ Command System, then I would seriously consider it.  If I would have to replace the power system plus the decoders and get some sensors, too, then the expense is not worth it to me. 

I'm ignorant on this issue and some of the discussion has gone right over my head. 

What are we really talking about here? 

I hope that my questions are making some sense.

And by the way, I do have a extra PC (Compaq).  I think that it currently has Microsoft Wondows 98 installed on it.

Anyway, that's what I currently have to work with.  Any suggestions?  I am just trying to get some information here.

Motrainguy:

I'm glad that I saw your post and I believe that I had the exact same problem as you are anticipating.  I have a fairly large layout (L-shaped with 3 main lines that are connected by switches) and the two halves of the "L" are 5' x 9' and 6' x 10'.

When I ran more than one train, the overall power dropped generally, but especially at several specific locations around my 3 main lines.  At that time, my layout only had one terminal rerailer installed that was connected to the 5 amp power booster.

I also use Bachmann EZ-track, the Bachmann EZ command system and a 5 amp power booster on my layout, but I still had that problem.

On April 14, 2009 I wrote an initial post titled "I Think That I May Not Have Enough Power for My Layout."  The responses on how to fix the issue were truly outstanding.  [/b] [/i] [/u] I strongly recommend that you find this topic and read this post.  If you can access my profile (I don't know if you can or not), it's post numbers 49-59.

IN A NUTSHELL, THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU NEED TO INSTALL SEVERAL TERMINAL RERAILERS at various locations on all 3 lines on your layout.  You are not going to be able to supply sufficient and evenly distributed power to various locations around your layout with only one terminal rerailer...even with a 5 amp power booster.  This is especially true about DCC layouts and there are several old threads of this site that discuss this issue.  I believe that a couple of them may be referenced on the discussion thread that I am referring you to.  I wound up installing 12 rerailers.  Some of the responses even had pictures showing me how to do the electrical wiring so that I could connect these multiple rerailers to the terminal wiring strips and then ultimately to my 5 amp power booster.  The hardware for the wiring can be obtained over the internet from Radio Shack.  You can get the wire from a variety of sources, including Home Depot or Lowes.

The group walked me through how to do this.  I thought that it would be an intimidating job but it wasn't at all.  Once you understand the concept, I recommend that you plan out the wiring using the terminal strips by sketching the connections out on some paper.  I am not an electrician and you don't have to be either to do this.  They even told me where to get the plastic clips to hold the wiring in place under my layout.

And no, you do not need an additional 5 amp power booster.

After I got all of the materials, it took me less than a week to do this, spending a couple of hours each day.  As my layout had already been basically built with a lot of scenery, that time period included about 2 or 3 days of minor scenery restoration where the rerailers had to be put in.  If you are just starting your layout, you won't have to deal with that.  The only tools that I needed were a drill, a small drill bit (I forget the size, but that was just to get the mounting screws for the terminal strips started), a larger drill bit anywhere between 1/4" to 1/2" so you can run the wiring through the supporting 2x4s and a set of decent screwdrivers.  The terminal strips were mounted underneath my layout on the supporting 2 x 4s underneath the plywood surface.

This was one of the very best discussion threads that I have ever read on this site...and one of the most useful.  This approach will save you a lot of headaches and an additional 5 amp power booster will be a waste of money because it won't solve this problem anyway.  It is, however, something that you simply have to do if you are building a good-sized DCC layout with 3 main lines as I did.

Good luck to you.  I'll make it a point to check this thread over the next few days to see if you have any follow-up questions.  The group really helped me out on this and if I can help you out on this issue, no problem.