ManFromGlad, I don't know how small "small as a penny" is, but the penny in the photo below looks pretty big compared to the  Digitrax DZ123 that I use.  How did they compare in terms of price?  Tony's trains has the DZ123 for less than $16.  See http://www.tonystrains.com/products/digitrax_decs_small.htm
for details.



For the curious, the decoder is sitting on a Canadian penny which is the same size as an American penny.

You might want to use screws.  Then if you have to replace it, you just have to unscrew them, rather than trying to break glue bonds.  A club I used to belong to decided to use Homosote under a yard.  Everything was fine until we applied ballast.  Then the Homosote swelled, twisted and warped.  This may have been related to the large area involved.  At least it never happened to the sub road bed under single and double tracks.

Yes.  Soundtraxx Tsunami can be installed and used on dc.  When you convert to DCC, then you can run it on DCC.  Just be sure the current drawn by your locomotive's motor is within the capabilities of the tsunami. 

Sounds about right.  Cochrun has a great set of instructions for this locomotive.  Just click on this link:
http://www.greensteamproducts.com/060T.PDF

Please note that it is a PDF file so you will need Acrobat or similar to down load and open it.

This is a common problem with the Digitrax Zephyr when programming Lenz and Lenz type decoders like Bachmann uses.  The solution is to buy a 1000 ohm resistor and connect it across your programming track.  I soldered an alligator clip to each end of my resistor so that I could easily clip it on the rails and unclip it again.

The voltage drops sound quite reasonable.  From no load to full load (5 Amps) it is only 13%, which is what I had estimated earlier.  Quite good compared to say the power pack that came with my first Big Hauler - 16 volts open circuit to 12 volts under load or a 25% drop or the typical drop on batteries - 14.4 freshly charged to 10.8 discharged or a 25% drop.  These drops are no big deal as far as the locomotives are concerned - they still run.

As far as what is the correct voltage for any locomotive, as I see it if there is enough voltage to spin the wheels then there is no need for anything higher.   

On a more serious note, lets see if we can explain model railroad controls in a way that everybody can understand them.

Q. Will the power pack that came with my train run my LS train?
A. Yes.
Q. Will the power pack that came with my LS train run all kinds of LS trains?
A. No.  For many LS locomotives, you will need a stronger/heavier/ higher rated power pack.

Q. Will the Bachmann E-Z Command Control system run my Bachmann LS DCC on board train?
A. Yes, with the optional 5 amp booster.
Q. Will the Bachmann E-Z Commander complete with 5 amp booster run all kinds of LS trains with DCC?
A. No.  For many some LS locomotives, you will need a stronger/heavier/higher rated power pack.  You may also need a decoder.

Q.  Can I run my Bachmann LS train on batteries and radio control?
A.  Yes, with a transmitter and a properly sized power control module.
Q. Can I run all kinds of LS trains on my batteries and radio control?
A.  No.  Many LS locomotives will require stronger/heavier/higher rated power control modules and/or stronger/heavier/higher rated batteries to perform properly.

Q. What are the advantages of running on regular dc power packs?
A.  Unlimited operating time.  And simple, simple, simple.
Q. What are the disadvantages of running on regular dc power packs?
A.  No way to independently control two trains on one track without more power packs, lots of wiring and toggle switches, and a difficult operating process.  Dirty track interfers with operation.


Q.  What are the advantages of DCC?
A.  Unlimited operating time.  Low cost decoders include lighting and accessory outputs as well as sophisticated motor control.  Relatively affordable decoder/sound systems are also available.
Q.  What are the disadvantages of DCC?
A.  Dirty track interfers with operation.  Multiple high current boosters are expensive.

Q.  What are the advantages of batteries and radio control?
A.  Dirty track is not a problem.  Electrical circuit through the rails is not required.
Q. What are the disadvantages of batteries and radio control?
A.  Limited run time, battery maintenance including charging and replacement, accessory modules required for lights and/or functions.

Q. Are there any other options?
A. There may be.  Contactless DCC is on the horizon.
Q. What are the advantages of contactless DCC?
A.  Dirty track is not a problem.  Low cost DCC decoders with many outputs and sophisticated motor controls that do not draw power from the rails.  With no power being drawn, there is no need for electrical contact with the rails, and no need for boosters.
Q.  What are the disadvantes of contractless DCC?
A.  Limited run time, battery maintenance including charging and replacement, may be range limitations.

Very good Noah.  I think we have all had days where we feel like that.
And rperego, as someone who has run on batteries, I would expect something like:
On the thirteenth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me
A funky little windup to run under the tree.
Twelve extra batteries,
Eleven battery chargers,
Ten pounds per engine,
Nine amps the limit,
Eight cars per engine,
Seven amps on hot days,
Six hours of running,
Five if it's hilly,
Four if you're silly,
Three years per battery,
Too many problems,
And a TX tossed up high into a tree.

Who's up for doing one on track powered outdoor layouts?
Keep in mind, we didn't get in to outdoor model railroading because it is easy.  We go into it because it is FUN.

Things have changed quite a bit since 1954 or 1955.  Back in those days you could load down a transformer until it did smoke.  These days, power packs and command stations are either current limited or have protective breakers.  You can load them down and down and down, right down to a dead short, and they still don't smoke.

Incidentally, by 1960, those old transformers were replaced by the new ones with built in circuit breakers.  No more smoke.

Not me!!  I've had enough high voltage shocks to last be a lifetime.

Bill, thanks for the kind words.  Actually, that's one of my model railroading buddies, recently retired from the CN and now learning what REAL railroading is all about.   That's a Digitrax UT4-R radio throttle in his hand.     

Insuring the trains is no problem.  Insuring the railroad is another matter.  All the insurance companies want to cover it for is the price of the materials.  Kind of like losing a Rembrant and they want to pay you for the cost of the oil paints and canvas.  Not that my layout is any Rembrant, but hey, a pile of 2x4's, bags of plaster, a few quarts of paint and a lot of glue is NOT a replacement for my layout if my basement floods or my house burns down.

Quote from: Curmudgeon on February 26, 2007, 10:17:18 PM

When the output voltage drops by almost 1/3 of what it should be, the device is not suitable for the purpose for which one is attempting to use it.

Period.

And what should the voltage be?  Certainly not the 18 volts open circuit voltage.  More likely the 15 volts or so that it produces into a 5 amp load.  In my books, 13 volts is only 2 volts (13%) below "what it should be," not 5 volts (33%.)

And why would anyone want to load something down until it smoked?  A fixed, constant load is nothing like the load a model railroad imposes on a power supply.  Would you load down an outlet in your house to see when your house burned down?  I know I would not.  Yet I routinely draw 30 or 40 amps out of a 15 amps circuit many times a day.  The secret is the length of time.

Similarly, DCC boosters can run what the uninitiated might consider "overloads" and still be within their operating parameters.  Normally it is the output transistors that overload.  But overload here has two distinctly different meanings, one an absolute maximum above which the current density inside the transistor exceeds a safe value.  But there is a lower maximum, based on safe temperature of the transistor, above which the silicon melts.  The temperature of the transistors depends on many more things than load, things like ambient temperature, thermal mass of any attached heat sinks, air flow over the heat sinks, thermal resistance of the transistor cases, and so forth.  An honest designer takes all these into consideration when he decides on a "worst case" current rating.  Changing any of the factors of course changes the current rating up or down.  The most common one is ambient temperature.  A booster rated for a maximum of 5 amps at 100 F. will shut itself down at about 5 amps on a 100 degree day.  On a 20 degree day, it will take more current to heat the output transistors up to the shutdown temperature.  Take it to the north pole on a cold day and you might be able to pull 10 amps out of it continuously before the over temperature circuit shuts it down.  This same principle applies to on board controllers, be they DCC decoders or r/c power modules.  If it gets too hot inside a locomotive, you use a fan to blow out the heat.  Even better, you use it to increase the airflow over the critical components at the same time.

In simpler terms, lets think of a flat heat V-8.  Above some temperature, it siezes up.  Yet in a drag race, you can run it with no water pump and no radiator.  That is because of thermal mass - it absorbs the heat.  But there is a limit - take it on a Sunday drive with the same set up, you had better take your walking shoes for the return trip.  Likewise if you take that engine out of a car and put it in a large truck.  What do you do?  You install a larger radiator and a bigger fan for better cooling in the hot weather.  But if you ran it only in winter, you could use the smaller car radiator and fan.  That is the effect of ambient temperature.  Would putting it in a truck overload the crankshaft?  Probably not - the designer engineered the crank shaft based on the maximum possible output power of the engine, or at least you hope he did.  Same with the booster - the wires and traces on the circuit board were not designed for the worst case minimum output current, they were designed for maximum best case output current.  For a 5 amp booster, that would likely be 10 amps or more.

Bottom line with the booster is that loading it down until the smoke comes out probably cannot be done.  Keep in mind that DCC booster are designed to operated into dead shorts continuously.  Lesser loading can only cause heating until the thermal overload detection circuit shuts off the output.

This sounds like a great opportunity for a cottage industry.  With rubber moulds and casting resins, one could quickly be in business.  The hardest part would be the originals, but like you say, they would not have to be highly detailled.

Thanks, Stan for running the tests and giving us some real numbers.  That is great performance for a "5 amp" booster.  I am not sure if any of my "8 amp" boosters would do as well.