After a long wait, I finally have gotten my hands on the new N Scale 'Thomas' Box Vans. I pre-ordered these wagons months before they made their way state-side, and yet my retailer of choice (who shall go un-named) took nearly two full months after their arrival to actually get my order into my hands... They were also quite slow with my Toby order, so I think I'm going to switch to someone else's service for the sake of my own sanity...

Anyway, the wagons are excellent aesthetically. All three liveries are colorful and look good in a goods train, and I think the three varieties currently available pair well with each other in a consist. I think my favorite of the liveries is the "Fruit and Vegetable" version, though the "Great Western" version is nice as well (even if it is odd to have an LNER van with GWR markings, ha ha). The white "Ice Cream" version is probably the weakest of the three, if only because its a somewhat more niche and silly wagon. But 'Thomas' rolling stock is nothing if not occasionally niche and silly, so I am glad to have it all the same. All three roll along smoothly and freely when pushed or pulled.

My only complaint about the Box Vans is that they are all very light, lighter than the 7-Plank wagons, even. It makes them feel somewhat cheap, which isn't a great impression to get from something with a suggested price of $36 a pop. Upon inspection, they use the same metal weight piece as the 7-Plank wagons, so I suppose the culprit is the van body being lighter than the open body...? Seems counter-intuitive for the bigger body to be lighter, ha ha. It's simple enough to add extra weight inside the Box Vans, but it would be nice if future releases of the vans could have a more substantial metal weight included to begin with.

That said, my overall impressions are positive. They look nice and run well, and that's what I wanted out of these.

I believe the second protrusion on the top of the GraFar Tank Car is supposed to be a vent, so that air can escape the tank while its being filled. Tank Cars in real life will have these, though I'm not sure why the 'Thomas' show's Tank Cars lack them... I understand not liking the size of the tool, it's a matter personal taste. Personally, I always found the HO/OO 'Thomas' Tank Car to be a bit small compared to the range's other wagons. So when these proper-scale Tank Cars had the same size dynamic, I assumed it was correct, so it's never bothered me particularly.

I think the reason for using the Graham Farish tool was mostly a measure of convenience. It was announced alongside James in 2020, and there weren't any proper samples of the 2019 N Scale debut lineup at that point, so rather than add yet another new tooling onto their plate they opted to go with one that was already done. And I'd say that did work out in their favor since they managed to get those Tank Cars onto the market more or less alongside the 2019 announcements. I suppose that's another good reason to not switch to a new tool now, it'd complicate the lineup to abandon the tool in favor of a new one that might not have all the same liveries as the first one! I rather like the Water and Oil Tanks, and don't much care for the Fuel Tank, but Fuel feels most likely to get 'first dibs' out of those three liveries if they ever do a new tool... There's more reasons to keep the GraFar tool around than there is to change it, from my perspective.

Honestly I'm not sure either why they didn't opt to use the Graham Farish 'Toad' for their Toad, they really didn't need to re-invent the wheel with that one... Best I can think of is that in general, 2022 was a turning point for the N Scale 'Thomas' range. Everything announced from 2019 to the 2022 catalog had been very 'safe' and 'minimal' for the sake of testing the waters of a new market, and ever since 2022 NMRA they've started splashing out and making more brave moves to expand the line now that they know the water's safe. I suppose in that since, Toad being a new tool could be their version of a power play! Shocking the world by showing off what they're able and willing to do in N Scale 'Thomas'! ...I suppose there may be some other reason such as the GraFar tooling not being available for the 'Toad', but I like the theatrics of my theory better, ha ha!

Quote from: Chaz on August 28, 2023, 06:59:26 PMAs for the tankers, I think Bachmann still needs to make a new tanker tooling over the Graham farish ones, but while doing so they can announce a new lineup of three tankers including milk, and tar being two of them.  The third can be something random for fun like the toffee tanker or even the raspberry syrup tanker if they wish, just as long as we get milk and tar first, especially since those two are in the CGI series.

I can't say I agree with wanting a new tool for the N Scale Tank Cars. I think the 'Thomas'-style Tank Car tool that Bachmann's been using in HO and Large Scale is quite ugly, if I'm being honest. The molded-in wiring looks tacky and makes the logos printed on the wagon's side look bumpy and unnatural. The Large Scale version in particular looks awful with how it simplifies the chassis detail in order to have commonality with the Large Scale Open Wagons and Box Vans... In contrast, the Graham Farish 12-ton Tankers are beautifully detailed on account of being real scale models. Say what you will about the lack of the wiring, I'd rather it not be present at all than mar the entire look of the model by having them extruding from the body. I don't think pricing is a good justification to switch either, it likely wouldn't be that much cheaper and what we have now isn't that far off from most of the wagons of the range to begin with. And that's before considering it'd be a visual downgrade, but I think I've made my view clear regarding that, ha ha. I do definitely agree with the desire for Tar and Milk Tanks in N, though. I think it would be nice to see a new color debut in N Scale alongside them. (Something red, perhaps? Please?)

In terms of other Rolling Stock, I've voiced support before for the Red/Blue/Green+Coal Open Wagons before, and still feel they'd be good to have since we currently only have Troublesome varieties of 7-Planks. The Spiteful Brake Van would also be nice to see in the lineup, too. I know most would rather have plain faceless brakes, but 'Break Van' is one of my favorite stories from the 'Thomas' mythos, so having that old grump in N Scale would be a treat for me, ha ha. Last rolling stock idea for now, but I think the Flatbeds with Crates from HO would be good to adapt for N, if only because the smaller crates could have some cross-play appeal as props for an HO/OO layout. The HO Scale crates are cartoonishly huge, but an N Scale crate could be a reasonable facsimile of a specially shipped crate or package. Just a bit of food for thought...

In the case of locos, Duck would be a nice character to have. I've made my thoughts on who I want most besides Edward and Henry clear (Mavis, ha ha) but I will happily accept him, Donald and Douglas, or Oliver. Spencer and Rosie would be nice as well, especially if they make Rosie in the red livery specifically. (I don't mind the pink, but given the red is the 'current' look for the character it would make more sense to use that. Perhaps the pink could be a later release in the same vein as LBSC Thomas or Black James?) I could make an argument for basically every character already in HO to deserve a spot in the N Scale lineup, as well as for the likely suspects for the next additions to HO, like Nia, Hiro, or Sidney. Rebecca and a potential Nia would round out the main case (especially fitting given N's all-'CGI' aesthetic), Daisy and Ryan are fun characters to have on a layout... Salty and Stanley are nice industrial-feeling picks... Even 'Arry and Bert could be given another shake here if discontinued items like the non-Thomas starter sets and the Ice Cream Box Van are fair game. The only characters I see having difficulty are Bill, Ben, and Beau... With the former two the only real issue is whether or not they can be motorized at that size. Perhaps by the time they're up for consideration, it can be done! Beau more or less relies on Bachmann bringing back their N Scale American-style 4-4-0, either as-is or via a retooling. I'd appreciate a new tool that's less clunky than the old 70s model, and hopefully the upcoming 19th Century 4-6-0 is an indicator Bachmann is willing to bring back some old-time-era steam power to N Scale...? In either case, N Scale is very exciting right now.

...Only just occurred that this is a very long post and only the first chunk is a response to what you were saying. Sorry Chaz!

I understand the demand for Hiro, but I also think it would be in Bachmann's best interest to not announce him until after Rebecca is either released or almost released. That said... I believe we're perhaps two or three years out from that? Which is plenty of time during which Bachmann can announce yet another new locomotive or two for the lineup, assuming they're willing to commit to anything during that time while also working on Rebecca and Stanley and whatever else the HO 'Thomas' design team may be cooking up... Announcing products that won't command a $300+ price tag (like they have with Stanley already) will be a comfort to consumers, surely.

(Granted even these smaller engines are commanding outragous prices, what with Stanley and the MIA Salty reissue commanding a higher price than Daisy, and Nia liable to be more expensive than Ryan given she's a medium-sized loco with an intricate set of valve gear that needs to be made from scratch... but even that pales in comparison to a prospective Hiro...)

I'm getting side tracked. The point is, if Bachmann waits until after Rebecca is either released or about to release, the consumer base essentially can get it both ways. That is, if Bachmann is willing to announce Nia while Rebecca/Stanley are in development, then announce Hiro after Rebecca's development is fully settled. Perhaps not an ironclad attack plan, but Bachmann has been overfilling their plate with 'Thomas' projects so frequently in the past few years that I could see them doing it anyway, ha ha.

I don't know what to expect from Bachmann given how fruitful these mid-year announcements were. I suppose the 2024 Catalog announcements could be more stripped back much like 2023's, with the more hard-hitting announcements saved for 2024's NMRA show...? But regardless, here's my thoughts on what the next new loco tools for the 'Thomas' lines could be.

I think Nia being the next HO locomotive is more or less guaranteed. Stanley seemed like the only new tool that could come before her, and now that he's out, I can't think of another new character that has a chance of making it in before her. I know everybody wants to see Hiro, but I think his sheer size makes him a long ways away from happening right now...

Since there are currently two Narrow Gauge locos awaiting development, I don't think we'll see a new one announced at least until Sir Handel and Duncan have either had major progress or are close to release. That said, I think Victor and Luke are the obvious next steps. Or rather, the only next steps, given the only other Narrow Gauge loco in the 'CGI' series is Millie. All three would be nice to see in the line, but I think once all three have been made, they are going to need to break into the 'Model Era' lineup in order to have more characters... But that is a problem for much further down the road.

For Large Scale, with the exceptions of potential exclusive characters, I think the best choices for new characters would be Edward, Rosie, and Stanley. Edward is obvious, but Rosie and Stanley are both Thomas-sized locomotives and would likely be received more enthusiastically than another Class 08. (It would likely be for the best if only the Red Rosie is made in LS, though. Putting out both variants would likely be a bad move.) That is, of course, if we can ever see a new character...

Lastly, my niche, N Scale... Henry and Edward are inevitable, and Henry seems more likely to come first given his commonalities with Gordon. I could see him being announced in the 2024 Catalog, but also could see him saved for the 2023 NMRA slate. Not sure.

I don't think they can fully recycle the HO/OO 'Thomas' chassis for Stanley. That chassis is far from correct to Thomas' appearance in the 'CGI' series, and Stanley has different enough wheel spacing that he would need a whole new chassis. Depending on how correctly sized they are, I could see Oliver's drivers used for Stanley like they were with Ryan, but given they lack the correct counterweights it would probably be best for Bachmann to just make a new wheel pattern.

I believe CGI Thomas and Stanley share the same wheel pattern, so perhaps Large Scale and N Scale can reuse the Thomas wheels if he were to ever migrate to those scales. But a new chassis would definitely be required in either scale. I'm sure he would be much appreciated as a newcomer to either scale, though.

(Tangentially on the subject of 'shared chassis'; Having further inspected the N Scale Toby model, it's only the wheels that are borrowed from Thomas. the chassis block is fully new and I believe the side rods are new in order to accommodate Toby's shorter wheelbase. Incidentally the die-cast block seems a bit too tall and wide in certain places to perfectly accommodate a future Mavis, but the only thing I think would need changing is that block's shape, the general sizing and wheelbase are otherwise good.)

But anyway, glad to see Stanley finally brought into the fold. At last, that old Hornby "Stanley's Shed" resin building will finally have a function, ha ha!

If the new '12 Ton Van' tool is indeed the Large Scale/N Scale 'Thomas' Box Van body scaled to HO/OO, I must wonder if that means the new liveries seen on the 12 Ton Vans will be included as 'Box Van' liveries for Large Scale and N Scale as well... Personally, I'd be most interested in having a rake of Gray vans in N Scale, but wouldn't mind having some Funfair or Christmas vans as well.

Very pleasantly surprised by how much was announced for the 'Thomas' line this year. Stanley and Bulgy are great character picks for HO/OO. It's odd to see yet more HOn30 stock announced despite not having seen hide nor hair of Sir Handel or the High-Side Wagons or Gondolas, but it's nice to see Duncan is going to happen.

I'm not quite sure how to feel about Diesel and Paxton being the next N Scale locomotives. I was quite invested in the idea of Henry and Edward being next... I suppose those two are still inevitable, at the very least. Paxton is one of my favorite engines so I will happily pick him up, and I will likely get Diesel at some point as well.

The sneakily-hinted Express Coaches in N are great to see as well. The use of the HO/OO model as reference is making me a bit unsure as to their final look but I very much hope these will be downscaled versions of the HO/OO model rather than new tools based on the 'CGI' coaches. The 'CGI' coaches are awful things, far too skinny and short. The HO/OO tool looks much better and a side-benefit of shrinking it will be providing ready-to-run Era 2 LMS coaches in N Scale, which would surely be appreciated by modelers of certain eras in that region.

The fact Stanley, the 12 Ton Vans, and Paxton/Diesel already have suggested prices is interesting, perhaps these have already had decent progress made on their tooling?

I don't expect much of importance this year other than Henry, and now the Express Coaches due to the teaser, in N. I don't see a new 'Thomas' loco for HO being announced until the 2024 Catalog at the earliest, same for HOn30. Large Scale could possibly see something, but I don't hold out much hope for anything groundbreaking like a new tool. (Would love to be proven wrong, the LS crowd deserve to have something good happen, ha ha)

It's been a while since there's been new Tank Cars in HO or LS, so it feels like about the right time to see some new ones. A redesign of the Tar Tank to match the 'CGI' version with the blocky stencil lettering would be my first choice (if only so it can propagate into N Scale, ha ha) but bringing the LS-exclusive liveries into HO would be good as well. Brand new liveries would be interesting as well, especially if they can bring some color variety in, such as a Red or Green livery.

But otherwise, I expect this batch of mid-year announcements to be like this year's annual catalog announcements... Overall rather light and with N getting the lion's share of attention. (Which isn't necessarily personal bias speaking, it does make sense to prioritize adding more to N Scale right now given the how the cost of new HO tooling is skyrocketing, and the lineup can safely re-tread the 'greatest hits' from HO in miniature form. It'll be a steady line of successes while HO is developing new ideas.)

Bachmann's Facebook page is doing a countdown to the NMRA 2023 Show, and the "3 Days" graphic features a very familiar set of rectangles... eerily similar to the window placement on the 'Thomas' line's Express Coaches, even down to how the clusters of windows are spaced further apart towards one side... I am hopeful this means Gordon's Express Coaches in N Scale are among this slate of mid-year announcements. If the teaser is meant to be literal, that may mean these may be shrunken versions of the HO/OO Express Coaches. (Which would be great for multiple reasons, but those can have their own post if these are indeed announced.)

I suppose it could also be a teaser for a new livery for the HO/OO Express Coaches... but given how recently the Red Express Coaches were released, I would be surprised if they were making yet another rake this soon...

Gordon looks amazing, very excited for his eventual release. Toad's imminent shipment is great news as well, I think he looks very nice albeit I am disappointed by the adherence to the lettering only being on one side of his body. It is accurate to the "CGI" and "Model" versions of the character, but it would have been nice to deviate slightly for the sake of fixing the show's mistakes and add text to both sides, considering the UK version of the HO Toad apparently does feature lettering on both sides...

I do very much hope we get a confirmation for Henry in the upcoming NMRA show. Frankly I expect N Scale to get the lion's share of content from this year's show, considering every other line is quite occupied right now. Most I'd expect from the others is some rolling stock recolors. (Though out of solidarity I do hope the Large Scale modelers can get a new locomotive soon...) I don't know if we'd get a rolling stock announcement alongside a Henry announcement, but personally I would like to see some faceless open wagons of the older varieties, Red Open/Blue Open/Green Coal Wagon. Express Coaches would be nice as well but may be better suited to a catalog announcement.

Personally I see Murdoch as a more likely "exception" they could make than Arthur, since his previous model from Hornby is notoriously sought after, and his appearance is much closer to the scale 9F than Arthur is to a scale Ivatt Prairie... although given the fair number of realistically-likely "CGI" characters they could make in HO/OO (remind me to post my predictive short-list on the topic someday), I think we're far more likely to see them bring "model-only" characters to the Narrow Gauge range far sooner. Smudger is an obvious choice, but also Proteus would be an easy way to reuse the upcoming Sir Handel tool. According to the fan wiki, he apparently does show up in a "CGI" themed podcast, so perhaps he can make the cut?

I think if they were ever to do a "model-only" locomotive before running out of viable "CGI" locomotives, it would probably be for the sake of an anniversary year, such as the upcoming 80th in 2025. But that is only if Bachmann and/or the licensor decide to re-evaluate their policy on what characters to greenlight. It makes sense to prioritize the characters who were in the modern version of the legacy series, but surely one or two older engines interspersed among the new crowd wouldn't hurt?

I'm excited to see the painted Gordon. Not terribly fussed over if it will be next Tuesday or not, honestly I would prefer if the next show were saved for August 1st so the streams can be back on the first Tuesday of the month. (As is right and proper!) But whatever they decide to do is fine by me.

Emily's revealed sample seemed like it was a lot less far along than Gordon's, so I'm not surprised her painted sample hasn't been teased yet. She didn't even have a face, ha ha! Perhaps later in the year we'll see her pop up in full color. Seeing Gordon will suffice for now in my opinion.

Checked in on the Bachmann online store this morning, seems that the N Scale "Thomas" Box Vans have finally come into stock, as they say "Add to Cart" rather than "Coming Soon". I expect it won't be long 'till they make their way out to retailers. Will post my thoughts in the main N Scale thread once I've got my hands on them...

I suppose their use of it is consistent with previous announcements using past models as a reference point. I would like it if Bachmann used the promotional and internal renders as illustrations for their upcoming models more often, though. It'd remove ambiguity in expectations with cases like Henrietta, and would undoubtedly look more professional than the fan-wiki screenshots used as illustrations for the recent Narrow Gauge wagons, ha ha.