jbrock, thanks again for your advice.  The thing is that the only issue (the few times it happens) is the 280 loco.  The GP40 diesel has no issues entering or leaving the turnout and neither do any of the cars, which are of various sizes (I haven't paid attention to the actual scale like 50' boxcars and so forth)

jward, thanks for the definitions.  I figured turnout was the better terminology on here.  The points are clarified.  From what has been mentioned, I'm thinking it's the frog.  For clarity, my layout is a modest 5'x8' (It's on the 'General Discussion - Show us your layout" pg 30).  jward has seen it in fact and pointed out design issues that would be troublesome for me.  Anyway, there is a lower line which is basically a full curve at each end (18r) with five 9' straights down the sides.  The upper loop has a turnout on each side of one full curve to finish the curve.

This evening before I logged on here, I ran both trains switching between both levels.  The GP40 never had an issue and the 280 loco did just fine on the lower loop.  On the upper loop entering the turnout (which is the straight section of the turnout) is where it has difficulty from time to time.  On the other side it enters the turnout on the straight section as well to continue up the upper loop.  I've checked my connections, but the thing that baffles me is the GP40 has never derailed.  Also, the obvious short kills the Dynamis wireless remote and nearly every time if I hit the stop button, it takes off again.

I've temporarily secured the track with T-pins so it won't move around so I can test everything out before gluing the track down.  It was suggested on another post for me to add feeders at a few other places, which makes sense to me.  Is it possible it is a very subtle power loss, at least on the turnout the furthest from the transformer?

I really appreciate the help that is for sure. 

Joe323

Thank you for the tip.  I'm assuming its the black plastic piece in the center you refer to

And no, the layout isn't just to entertain him.  This 54 year old boy is going to enjoy as well

jbrock27,

No I don't have one.  I'm pretty much starting from the ground up.  Everything is new if that matters.

I've just set up my layout after a few design changes based upon advise from jward and Doneldon (thanks again, guys)   Anyway, I'm using Bachmann EZ track with 18r curves and the left and right corresponding turnouts.  I have a C&O 2-8-0 locomotive and a GP40 (I think) Santa Fe diesel.  The locomotive is derailing upon entering the turnouts.  Not every time, mind you, just here and there.  The Santa Fe diesel rolls right through and has never had a problem.  The turnouts are at each end of the full curve, and turnout in question is a left turnout as the locomotive approaches from a long straight section about to make the curve.  I've noticed that its 'catching' on the two small guide wheels at the front. 

Any idea on what I should look for, especially since it's maybe 1 in 3 instances on average.  I'm sure its a simple thing but I'm a 54 year old rookie in railroad modeling.

Doneldon - the 28 month old grandson literally screamed with joy when he saw the two trains running when he got here this morning.  Every penny I've invested was justified in that moment.

Doneldon, jward,

Thanks to both of you pointing out the possible (and probable) issues in my layout.  I was pretty busy yesterday doing other things but tinkered on Anyrail last night and on and off today.

As per suggestions by the both of you, I have eliminated any 's' curves directly connected with two 18" radius curves.  I placed a 9" straight between the only one left.   I moved both the LH and RH turnouts to the end of the curve that is on the right of the drawing.  I altered the higher level to not be directly over the lower level.  I've set the highest elevation to 3" on the Anyrail drawing, but mocked it up at 2 1/2" as the highest elevation.

Again I thank both of you for pointing out the issues.  Basically I've set this up with what I have on hand.  This is my first go with DCC as well as EZ track.  I bought the Dynamis Spectrum 56"x38" set with a C&O locomotive, purchased a set of the identical track on ebay, which included two DCC LH turnouts.  I added a LH & RH turnout pair-remote, a dozen 9" straight, a DCC diesel and a few rolling stock to run two trains.  I bought it all from 'thefavoritespot' in one purchase and stayed on a modest budget that I set for myself up front.

Once I get this all done and down the road, I'll eventually replace the radius curve on the upper right hand side with a RH turnout to head to the right and all the way down the remaining 12' wall.  I'll have to figure out how to bring a return back to the point of origin .    Give me something to much later on.  For now, I think this will entertain my and my 28 month old grandson for quite awhile.  He came over yesterday and when he saw the track mocked up with a 'boose (as he calls it) he literally screamed!

Quote from: jward on October 12, 2013, 09:17:34 AM
the big issue I see is that the grade to your upper level will be about 6%. that's way too steep and your locomotives won't pull much on this grade. another problem is that you have 18r reverse curves both in the back where the upper level joins the main loop, and on the elevated spur track.

you can fix both with a simple rearranging of your track components. you should have at least 6" of straight track between left and right hand curves. and you can move the junctions between the upper and lower lines to the ends of the right side curve, with the switches as part of the curve, the right hand switch will be to the rear, and the left in the front. this will also add enough length to the upper line that you can reduce the grade to a much more acceptable 4%.

Thanks jward.    I had mocked it up earlier this morning and knew right away that I'd have grade issues.  Also, I've been using Anyrail for about 2-3 months now and just now discovered the 'show slope pcts' option (feel pretty stupid about that discovery)

Anyway, the right hand turnout on the right side is pretty much located to dodge the door casing that I left in place.  If we ever sell this house, I'm certain I'd have to revert that area back into the 5x5 closet, so I don't want to disturb the casing.  I'd have to wreck out the surface area but all of the support structure is screwed in.   In the long run I lowered the far end on the upper line to 2 1/2" and hit 4% both directions.  I've decided to enclose both the upper and lower line in a double tunnel, with the 2 1/2" height difference.  I figure that'd be pretty cool and the 28 month old grandson loves tunnels.   I did as you suggested and put a 9" straight track between the 'S' curve on the high siding.  I was able to elevate that from 2 1/2" to 3 5/8" with the last three sections flat at 3 5/8" so the parked cars wouldn't roll down the hill.

For a bit of humor relief, this morning after I mocked up the elevations with blocks of wood, I took a caboose and let it go from the back going downhill on the right side.  It rolled all the way down, around the front end full curve, back up the left hand turnout on the left and up about 1/2 way.  It then rolled back to about the middle of the full curve.  I said to myself 'this isn't gonna work'

Thanks again jward.

Wiley,

Have you posted a video of this layout on Youtube?  I'm certain I watched one not too long ago that looks exactly like this.  Either way a nice job!   

Doneldon,

That, my friend, is my longterm goal.  I hope one day to have the 12x12 bedroom plus the 5x5x8 that I'm currently building.  I decided to fill the whole 5x5 space in the former closet for future expansion.  I also made the access hole a 20x24 rectangle instead of a circle







My grandson has already moved the unpowered Lionel track underneath.  I think you  can barely see him in the 2nd pic

D,

Hey thanks for the suggestions.  This area is where I wanted to build it in the first place and when I realized that not only would I have to practically climb over the layout to the back corner to fix issues, I would have to do the same just to build the scenery.    The table wasn't going to work either and that's when I remembered the access hole idea.  Great solution to build as well as for me and Rylan to climb up in there and watch the trains in action.   Late last night my wife and I laid the track down on the floor according to my Anyrail plan.  There were a couple of glitches that I adjusted (I learned from failure on the Lionel to test out the track plan beforehand)

I had to move the uphill run further in from the edge which puts the mining siding almost above it in a couple of places.   My solution is to elevate it from the 4" at the turnout up to 5 1/2" at the end.  This is more than enough to clear the planned 1" to 2" rise below it.  If all goes well and there's room, I will make a 'pass' on each side of the ore siding.  At first I thought about building a tunnel below it then decided I'd rather have a wooden trestle bridge above. 

I have the 2880 C&O steam locomotive that came with the Dynamis set which would be fitting for the ore mine.  I bought a DCC Santa Fe (blue/yellow) that I'll run down on the lower level.   In the long run I'll add a passing siding on the lower level between the RH Remote turnout at the top and the access port at the end.  You are correct in saying that this layout even though it's small by most standards, does have many possibilities for further expansion.  Once I had the main layout put together and took some dimensions from it, I experimented with the turnouts for future sidings and such.  I can do several off of that long one in the center but for now, I've pretty much used all of the track I acquired and am satisfied with that.

My biggest concern was the grandson, at his young age, messing with it unsupervised.  My wife came up with a great idea.  She said isn't there a something like a temporary fence with a locking gate I could put up.  Even better that gave me the idea to  build a 42" wall on the outside and cut an old bedroom door to fit.  Problem solved until he gets a little older. 

The good news is that I screwed the table frame and legs so that was easy to take apart and salvage. And the blue foam board has a plastic sheeting on both sides.  I removed the top for the surface and when I started taking it up, the board separated from the sheeting and popped right off.  I cleaned up the mdf paneling with a large scraper and will turn it over to reuse.  So other than time, no loss in material.   I never was fully satisfied with a 4x8 anyway.   In the long run I'm thinking I'll keep pushing that ore siding on around and upward .

You've been a great acquaintance on this site as well as others that have commented and/or answered my questions.  I'm getting pretty stoked up about this and I know this little one is going to go nuts.  I have him again today and we're about to build the table.

Lonnie

Quote from: Doneldon on October 09, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
Lonnie-

They're called "terminal" track sections. They are expensive but you don't need to use them.

You can use any small gauge wire (even 22- to 26-ga) for short feeders running up from a supply buss under the table. Then solder the feeders to the outsides of the rails or to the bottoms of rail joiners. You can use just about anything for the supply buss but it should be comparatively large because the purpose is not to lose power in transmission as would occur if the buss were tiny like the feeders. I use zip cord from extension cords or old lamps (16 ga stranded). It's actually cheaper in most cases to buy an extension cord and cut the ends off than it is to buy wire from the spool at a hardware store. Suitcase connectors let you tap the feeders off of the buss without having to strip or solder anything under the table.

                                                                                                                                                                      -- D

Thanks Donaldon.  If I'm following correctly, I already have 3 terminal track sections with what I've bought.  They have the 2 pin connector sockets on each side.  I suppose I could solder directly to those flat pins, yes? 

Progress:  Well after building a 4x8 table on casters, I decided that it wasn't going to work out the way I intended.  Instead, I decided a permanent bench top utilizing a former 5x5 closet and then protrude out to 8'.  I wanted to something like this in the first place but realized I couldn't get to the far back corner to even build this, much less deal with a derail issue.  Then I remembered a large layout at the local train museum and came up with 'Rylan's port hole'.   Rylan is my 28 month old grandson who is the one I've mentioned earlier.  He is creatively named after Nolan Rylan, baseball great and president of the Texas Rangers. 

Quote from: Joe323 on October 07, 2013, 04:49:10 PM
Based on what you describe I think the power is adquate but you will probably want to add feeders at various points along the track to make up for the resistance that will occur the further the locomotive gets from the power source.  I have a small 4 x 6 layout running DCC and have an extra feeder at the opposite end of the layout.

On the extra feeders I just realized that I'll need to get the 2 pin connector leads from the first feeder to the next and so forth.  I know the feeders have a connection point on each side, which seems like a great idea someone came up with.  I've looked in the Bachmann store and obviously don't know the right terminology in the search criteria.  I think I have 3 feeders, maybe 4.  I'm thinking I'll go from the feeder nearest the power supply and then go feeder to feeder from there.  I need a little help finding what I need to do this

Thanks

-- D

You're right about pine Christmas trees.  I have lived in Texas nearly all of my life and we usually buy a spruce or Douglass fir tree.  Several years ago when I lived on 7 acres in the country, I took the tree down after New Year's and laid it in my garden spot and literally took a match and it pretty much ignited.  That was an eye opener.  Fortunately these days there are LED lights which produce no heat at all, if any.

I pretty much grew up with HO scale trains, and all on a piece of plywood in the living room.  When my boys were little, I built a 4x8 HO layout for them in our garage with a tunnel but no inclines.  I think it was the larger set with the passing siding at one end.  There was some lumber in that table, along with the structure I made to plaster over the tunnel for a 'mountain.'   I told the family that in the event of a severe storm or tornado, go down into the garage, get under that train table, and hold on...lol

I've read numerous posts on this forum regarding scenery and building hillsides and so forth using newspaper and cardboard to create forms.  I've used standard plaster before but have acquired hydrocal for this new layout.  I've also used a heavy drywall joint compound as well.  The medium for wall patching is ok, but will crack without reinforcement.   

I'm not moving as fast as you think, all I've done is get the bench top ready.  Today I'll make the legs and put a little weathered deck stain on them.  I'm putting locking casters on the legs so I can roll it over into a corner when I'm not working on it or using it.  If all goes well in the long run, I'll use this 4x8 as the first section to extend into a horse shoe layout as time/finances go by.

I'm self-employed and my cabinet shop is in the two car garage, so I have flexibility.  I've also been keeping the 2 year old grandson this week since my 2 man crew is going alright without me.  When I get the table ready and lay the track, that little boy is going to go nuts.  One thing he learned when I built the Lionel is the phrase 'don't touch it'.  When we are running the Lionel and when my wife or anyone else approaches, he points his finger at them and says 'don't touch it'   I think its more of a possessive thing in that regard ha ha

Lonnie

Donaldon,

Again good sound advice from an experienced model railroader.  On the styrofoam side, I had already gotten a tip from a railroader at our local train museum.  I used pink on the Lionel 027 which is 1" thick and blue on this one, about 7/8" thick.  That white 'beer cooler' styrofoam is a terrible product for the building trade, much less a surface area for a model train.  Even the kind that is foil face on one side will break in half before you can install it on a wall.

I ended up taking some 2x6 lumber that was laying around and ripped them to 1 1/2" x 2 1/2".  I was going to use 1x4 material but decided I wanted a fairly sturdy frame.  I've actually built the frame to go beneath the 1/4" mdf/stryfoam so the surface area is 49" x 97" and I had some 1" pink pieces that I ripped on my tablesaw (handy to have) to the 7/8" thickness to fill the edges.  Over half of one side where the filler pieces go will be covered by the incline anyway and the far end totally covered by the 'hill'.  I'm doing an upper and lower level that connect via a LH & RH turnout.  As I mentioned in the initial post, I bought the Dymamis Spectrum set that has a 56" x38" oval with a DCC LH turnout.  I bought the track set identical to it on ebay at a good price then won a couple bids on ebay with a remote LH and RH turnout for 18" radius track.  Initially I was going to use the two DCC LH turnouts to get to the upper level by turning in on one side of the lower level and return on the outside.  The more I thought about the DCC, and two trains running at the same time, I figured it would be easier for me to do the switching with the remotes and I put the two DCC LH and the 'freigh yard'.  (I'm not familiar with all the terminology

The grandson has a few of my Lionel cars that I either didn't need or have repair issues.  I gave them to him and glue a small oval of 027 track (unpowered) on a piece of cardboard.  The little fellow can get the wheels set properly on the track and couple them together (lift one above the other)  he's a fast learner.  This afternoon I built the table top for the new layout and when he came out to the garage and saw me gluing the styrofoam to the solid surface, he squealed and yelled 'choo-choo'  He knew exactly what it's going to be.  Amen on skip the kids and get the grandkids!

Goodnight all,

Lonnie

Doneldon, you are dead on with the lighter weight wood, a lesson previously learned from a Lionel layout that I built.  I built the frame work out of 2x4's with 4x4's for the legs.  The primary reason I used that lumber was they were leftovers from previous jobs.  Saving a bit of cash did not do my back any favors- ha ha.  I'm 54 and wiser these days.   I'm going to use 1x4's that you can get off the shelf at the lumber yard for the frame work, attach a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" mdf to that (which is actually 49" x 97" - a little more surface than standard paneling), and lay a 1" piece of the polystyrene foam board as the work surface for the layout. 

The Lionel layout was sturdy for sure and I also built the grades with scrap lumber.  In the end I realized in being efficient with material on hand wasn't such a good idea.  I'm going to have to move this thing at some point when I sell it!  In the end I learned I'm supporting a light weight model train, not the real thing.  I'm thinking if it had a solid surface on top that one could park a small car on it.

I learned much from building that 027 layout.  Styrofoam is your friend.  My original plan was to move this small layout to the spare room and add on to it.  I decided to go with HO scale in order to have longer consists as well as venture into the DCC world.  At least the Lionel keeps my 28 month old grandson entertained while I build this new one.  Ever since he was 16-18 months old he'd scream when he'd see a train.  He actually sleeps with a Lionel gondola or passenger car that I gave him.  I'm going to nurture this interest in him for sure.  Video games, TV, and the internet rob our children of the natural creativity that God instilled in all of us.

Thanks again for the input.  I'll put up some photos as I progress.  It won't be the grand layouts that I've seen on here.  There is an awful lot of talent on this board as well as knowledge that I can pull from.

Lonnie