Quote from: engineman on March 17, 2008, 09:50:12 AM
Hi
Just checked the Bachman Web site and they have Re appeared....does that mean that they are now Available

I just did a product search and there are no heavy weight coaches being shown at all. That would correspond with an earlier post from a reader who indicated that the heavyweights were not in the new catalogue.

Mr. B, the catalogue section is missing the road names from the engine descriptions in the HO Steam section.
I assume the roadnames are to be entered later?

Sheldon

Your review of the two motors certainly supports the Bach Man's comments that the 3 pole were of comparable specs to the new 5 pole.

I will now order another Spectrum,  just to have available. There certainly are a lot of 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's currently available at very low prices at the moment.

Quote from: Atlantic Central on March 07, 2008, 06:31:06 PM
One, I've never paid more than $80.00 for a Bachmann 2-8-0, even new ones with DCC.

Two, without knowing all the specs of a motor, arguing 3 pole vs 5 pole is silly. Sure, for our purpose in model trains, with all other design features being equal, 5 pole is better than 3. BUT, a very well designed, skewed armature 3 pole can easily perform as well or better than "average" 5 pole.

I have both old and new 2-8-0's, the new ones with the three pole motors seem to run a bit smoother, especially at slow speeds than the old ones. So, based on results, not hype, the new three pole might well be as good or better than the old five pole.

Bachmann's use of the belt drive and the gear ratio in question plays a role here. The torque curve of the new motor may be better suited to this application than the old motor, no matter how many poles it was.

As I said above, it's results, not theory or hype that interest me. Having desgined and built HiFi speakers, designed and installed hydronic heating, designed and installed process machinery controls, sooped up hot rod engines, and built model trains for 30 years, I am more impressed with results than fancy specs.

Sheldon

Sheldon

Finally comments and a comparison from someone who has the Spectrum 2-8-0's with both motors.  I agree that it is the results that matter.

The speed of these engines was apparently 15 to 20 mph.

Other than making sure all of the rods between the trucks are properly set in place and also that it has been very lightly oiled.

Break in for this engine is to set the speed at about half and run it forward and reverse for 20-30 minutes or so in each direction.

Even after the engine has been broken in there is not much of a significant increase in speed from the half throttle setting.

A snails pace you say.

The shay is a geared engine and as such moves very slowly compared to most other engines.

Do you not have other engines that you could test on your track?

Try running the shay on another layout?

Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 06, 2008, 10:13:12 PM
Yup, it's just I get free shipping with my membership, and a 30 day no hassle guarantee directly from Tower.  That is worth the extra money for me.

If something is defective, they even send me a prepaid UPS label, and pay the shipping to send the replacement to me.  Even if I just change my mind, they will give me a refund within the 30 days.

I won't buy from any vendor that requires out of the box defects to be sent to the factory. 

Bob

Well I guess I know the price of peace of mind for me at least.

Quote from: Atlantic Central on March 05, 2008, 08:44:23 PM
I have a large fleet of Proto 2000 locos, never paid retail, but they are worth every penny of the usual prices in the market place.

Sheldon

The later runs of the Heritage Steam are great engines. As said they are available at discounted prices now and again. If you had to pay full retail then I would go elsewhere.

Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 06, 2008, 12:31:54 PM
New Bachmann Connie 2-8-0s are currently selling for $114.00 for the UP, $117 for the others.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJWY1&P=SM

I ordered 2 more for spares. Better get'em while they're hot. They might be 2007 models but who cares?

Bob

For a better price check MB Klien Just less than $80.00

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/category_s/224.htm

Quote from: the Bach-man on February 26, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
Dear DR,
The originals had a five pole motor. A running change was instituted that replaced them with a highly efficient three pole motor with he same rating. thus, if your locomotive is recent production, it does have a three pole motor.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

After receiving the answer that the current 2-8-0 is powered by a 3 pole motor I searched for information.

It appears that a 3 pole motor can outperform a 5 pole motor depending upon a number of variables. So it is quite possible that this new 3 pole motor is indeed superior in its running characteristics to the older 5 pole motors.

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43689&whichpage=2

Quote from: r.cprmier on March 03, 2008, 03:33:04 PM
Sid;
What logic do you-or would any manufacturers in a highly competitive market-have in using a three-pole motor.  Are you familiar with motor theory?  I ask that not as a castigation, but out of curiosity, because there is a world of difference in a three V. five-pole motor.  The more poles, the smoother the run, the better acceleration/deceleration rates, the less lead/lag relationship, etc. 

In my experience with small motors here, I have found  three-pole motors to be pretty inferior .  That having been told, I would bet that no company in a discretionary niche market would be caught dead with less than an excellent product.  Excellence is too easy to accomplish these days.

RIch

I was quite surprised when it was confirmed that Bachmann had switched from 5 pole to 3 pole motors for the 2-8-0.

Mr. B indicates in that thread that the rating was the same for the two motors.

Nothing was mentioned about the other Spectrum steam models so it may only be the 2-8-0, but then if it is a cost cutting measure.

I wonder if it is because of the DCC decoders now being installed in the newer Spectrum's

Quote from: modlerbob on March 03, 2008, 11:29:20 AM
I don't think any of the high end or even medium priced locos will have 3 pole motors.

Did you not read the thread.?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4500.0.html


The Bach Man himself confirms that the newest  Spectrum 2-8-0 now has a three pole motor.

One of the LHS has brought in on consignment (estate) a set of the pre-Spectrum passenger cars. They appear to be quite detailed. Does anyone have these cars and what do you think of them?

Quote from: Atlantic Central on February 27, 2008, 03:05:09 PM
drhone,

I don't have more locos than needed for the proposed layout, so when the layout is done (at least from a track standpoint) They will all have a home on a piece of track.

If I ever difted into collecting (not likely), I would buy some display cases.

Sheldon

This is what happens when you plan your layout and do not plan sufficient layout/staging tracking.

Thankfully I will soon be able to enlarge the layout to accommodate the required yard trackage on two new levels..

The reason for the question was based on the fact some forum members on this board and other boards indicated that they had the Spectrum 2-8-0 engine and it was powered by a 5 pole motor, while others indicate the presence of a 3 pole motor - they are both right - two different production runs.

Question answered. There was a change in the production of this model.