Quote from: trainman203 on Today at 08:44:10 AMJeffrey, The last steam engines went away when I was almost 9 yr old but not before I got a good solid look at them. I got diverted by model airplanes for about three years and when I returned to trains at 12,  this time becoming a serious model  railroader, I went to the depot on my bike looking for the steam engines and they were gone.  So was the water tank and the water columns along the depot platform where so many times I'd seen the engines taking on water.
So my young railfan days were spent in the world that you got to know a little bit with first generation diesels all over the place. 

Out on the main line T&NO which very shortly became the SP, it was commonplace to see black widow F Units in ABBA consists on through freights, sometimes with high nose Geeps mixed in, no low noses of any kind yet, the bloody nose paint was just appearing. Orange and black SW7's and S2's worked the yard and the 2 locals that went out the Midland branch every morning and returned late in the day.

The Missouri Pacific across town was a branch line hub of sorts, the south terminus of a 50 mile branch from the former NOT&M mainline north , which from our town radiated to two subordinate further branches.  There was a sheet metal engine house, a wye, a 3 track yard, and a mile-long street running industrial spur, perfect to copy for a layout, but we didn't know that yet. Gray and white Geeps and solid black S2's worked there.

The MP crossed the SP twice, the west one with a manned interlocking tower whose story I've told here in the past in great detail.

So I had a good solid look at that first generation world familiar to older railfans today.  But I'm afraid I didn't appreciate it like I should have, because I was crying so hard for the steam engines so very, very recently departed.

So many who grew up around steam didn't appreciate the early diesels. This is why we have a bunch of preserved BigBoys, but surviving or preserved diesels from Lima, Fairbanks Morse and Baldwin are few and far between, with many models now extinct. During the period when they were retired, 1957 to about 1972, very few saw their historical value. Even EMD was not immune with their aggressive trade in program claiming many early units. We almost lost the FT, the diesel that more than any other proved diesels could, and did, do everything. We lost the F2, very few F3s exist, several early E unit models and switchers have all been scrapped.

We have lost so much. It always seems to disappear when we aren't paying attention.

I never saw steam in regular service. It's mostly a curiosity.

I did experience first generation diesels in heavy mountain service, and that's an experience that can never be repeated. Not only are the locomotives gone, in many cases the rail lines are too. My dad made it a point on vacations to look up shortlines in the areas we went to. Most of those are now gone as well, victims of the increasing weight of the cars they hauled, and the trend toward bulk freight. I was also fortunate enough to grow up in B&O and WM territory. Both railroads were friendly, and we had run of dome pretty major terminals just for signing a release form. The signal towers were always fascinating, with a party line phone system where you could listen to the entire division talking to the train dispatcher.


But it wasn't

Quote from: trainman203 on August 10, 2024, 04:59:00 PMThat is a very well stated thorough and analyzed response, Jeffrey. The only thing I might add would be that the problem you describe in item 3 can also occur at insulated switch frogs where a wide wheel tire can momentarily contact the two opposite polarity rails, just like as the crossing as you described.  I have that problem with long wheelbase steam locomotives at my few No. 4 switches, whose installation I regret endlessly to this very day, but the same clear nail polish treatment solves it.  I did find that it's good for several years, but it wears off enough after time to require another application. However, that's probably less periodic maintenance than a real railroad would require at  a switch.

Thanks. I was fortunate enough to have had a grandfather who was one of the pioneers in HO scale, having gotten his start before WW2 when you had to build everything from scratch. The nail polish trick was one of the many things I learned from him. And yes, it will work on any frog.

It especially comes in handy with DCC. There are alot of momentary shorts like this on a model railroad that we never noticed on DC because by the time the circuit breakers in the power packs reacted, the locomotive was past the problem area. But on DCC the circuit breakers are almost instantaneous, and these problems we never knew we had on DC can cripple a DCC railroad.

In theory, any N scale DCC locomotive could run on tour layout. You may run into limitations running larger locomotives on sharp curves. When I was in N scale I found alot of locomotives had problems on 9.75" radius, but most diesels would run on 11" radius. Later I built a layout where all curves were 14" radius or wider, and I never found a locomotive that wouldn't run on those curves. These radii do not exactly match EZ track curves, but they are close.

The biggest problem you have is that you are trying to use steel rail track with DCC. Steel rail is very hard to keep clean, and DCC requires clean rails for an uncorrupted control signal. If you look at the Bachmann catalog you will see that all DCC sets come with nickel silver rail. There is a good reason for this: conductivity is much better with Nickle silver and is requires far less cleaning.

Exacerbating your problem is the short wheelbase locomotive running over a switchpoint that's making intermittent contact. A longer wheelbase locomotive would help solve the problem as it would bridge the dead spot better. My solution in a situation like this is to solder a feeder wire to the dead switchpoint, but that is impossible to do with steel rail.

A third problem appears to be the wheels are coming in contact with the cross rails at the crossing. this bridges the two seperate circuits I assume you are using on this crossing as you referred to using two different autoreverse units. Your wheels are completing a circuit between the two autoreversers as they are wider than the insulated parts of the rail at the crossing. A simple solution is to paint the rail meatl rails at the crossing with clear nail polish, just enough so that the autoreversers don't trip.


As for battery powered dead rail. Yes it is a solution, but it is expensive and a pain to install. Two rail power is a time tested method of controlling the trains, in widespread use longer than most of us have been alive. That you disregarded recommendations of the manufacturer by going the cheap route with steel rail, then trying to run DCC on that track in no way means that the control system is at fault. If you want things to work right, you have to design and build your layout using the recommended components. That you did not do so is YOUR fault, not the manufacturers.

This would be a great opportunity to learn how to lay flex track.

Are you sure you want DCC ready? All that means is that it can easily be converted to DCC, but it is still a DC locomotive. What it looks like you want is a DCC SOund chassis.  WHat seems to be available from the parts store is a DCC ready chassis with provision for a speaker for sound conversion, but you'd have to buy the sound decoder and speaker in addition to the chassis. Going this route will give you a new chassis but require some work on your part and cost around $300. Your best bet may be to look for a DCC sound F7 on Ebay and swap the body shell for the one you have.

Quote from: trainman203 on July 29, 2024, 10:01:06 PMif you like smooth operation and don't like cleaning your track, it is.

If you like smooth operation and don't like cleaning your track then DeadRail solves all your problems. A capacitor can only do so much. Battery power is an uninterruptable power source.

I also started with a Zephyr, the original DCS50. I found that acquiring a locomotive and running a train was relatively straightforward. Programming of decoders is a rabbithole you choose to go down. It can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be. It all depends on what you want out of your railroad. But at least with a system like Zephyr the capability to do those things is there. The latest version DCS62 has made the basic programming alot more intuitive, and I've never regretted buying wither of those units.


Regarding the decoders running on DC, and why we turn it off:

This is known as analog conversion. The DCC system puts full voltage on the track at all times. and the train is controlled by signals transmitted to the decoder. DCC voltage is a form of AC.Traditional DC operates by varying the track voltage to control the train. Analog conversion tells the decoder to look for DC voltage on the rails, and if it finds it, to run according to the voltage it finds. In certain conditions, like dirty track or a momentary short, the decoder can be tricked into thinking it's on DC, and the locomotive will take off at full speed. WHen this happens the only way to stop it is to turn the DCC system off and restart it. If you've ever had this happen you can imagine the panic that causes. It is easy to disable this feature to prevent this from happening, and I do so when I set the address on a new locomotive.

First off. DCC ready means the locomotive does NOT have a decoder. It will have the motor isolated from the chassis but nothing else is guaranteed. SOme DCC ready locomotives have a socket where a decoder can be plugged in, but many will require a hard wired decoder.

DCC OnBoard, or DCC equipped means the locomotive has a decoder, and can be run as a DCC locomotive. Most of these locomotives come from the factory with a decoder that can run on either DC or DCC power. Many of us turn this feature off in our locomotives, so you may not be able to run a secondhand DCC locomotive on DC.

As was stated before measure the time over a given section. On a previous layout I used a 6 foot section (two lengths of flex track is 1/10 of a scale mile) and multiplied the time by 10. If the resulting time is 60, 60 scale mph.

Here is the chart I used for reference.

240 sec     15 smph
180 sec     20 smph
120 sec     30 smph
 90 sec     45 smph
 60 sec     60 smph
 45 sec     90 smph
 30 sec    120 smph
 20 sec    180 smph
 15 sec    240 smph

On the contrary. The wye in the electrical diagram is exactly what the isolated reversing section on your railroad should look like.

It would be best to leave the mainline tracks along and insert your gaps in the rails of the curved sections. That way, the entire "tail" of the wye will be your reversing section.

The GP35 should give no trouble on 18r curves. The SD45 will derail shorter cars like ore cars that are coupled directly to it, so you'll want to make sure to couple a 40 or 50 foot car to the locomotive and any ore cars to that.

There is probably nothing wrong with this locomotive. The decoders used in some of the DCC OnBoard  locomotives make the locomotive sound like a coffee grinder. That is normal. It is not indicative of anything wrong with the locomotive itself, and lubing the gears will not quiet it down. I don't know how to quiet the noise other than replacing the decoder with an aftermarket one.

This grinding sound is different from the high pitched squeal of a non decoder locomotive on DCC track power.