I'm working on a continuous new layout. The Engine will start out on the right of a double track, that continues to a loop (no switch ), returns on left side of starter track to another loop (no switch) that returns engine to starting point. I do not see a reverse loop, but several on this forum did, so I purchased a Auto Reverser circuit.and installed the Insulated joiners. in one loop.
The Engine stalls and stops going from the one side to the other. I can't get continuous running. I've been experimenting with insulated joiners in the other loop with temporary DCC connections. No way can I get the continuous run. Always a Stall and stop. Push passed the insulated joiners,runs fine with correct direction. Before the Auto reverser and insulated joiners I did get shorted out. I think it's a great plan but can't overcome the stop then push.
Any help really appreciated.
Joe
Did you set up auto reversing at each end reverse loop?
Joe, If I understand your description of your layout, it is shaped like a dogbone, O==O, There isn't any reverse polarity. Have you tried without any auto reversers. - John
John. You see what I see. No reverse needed. However, when I first applid DCC power the track shorted out. Coming to this forum, it was suggested to install an Auto reverser. I've done that and Track all has power except at 2 spots where I installed insulated joiners for the reverser. My thought being, if my initial DCC wire shorted the track -now with Insulated joiners it runs that there was no short innitially. A short is a short with regular DC or the DCC. I'm overlooking something . Need you guys to tell me what or how. It's over my head. Thanks
Joe
Do you have more than one set supply feeders to the track? If there is, maybe one set is reversed. - john
Joe-
If you have no turnouts it is impossible to have a reverse loop even if you figure out a way for your trains to do barrel rolls, swan dives death spirals or a hop, skip and a jump.
I suggest removing all insulated rail joiners and perhaps adding a couple of feeders in phase with what you have already. Any functioning DC or DCC system should operate your trains just fine. If the trains won't go or won't make it through some part of your layout you either have a defective controller or decoder (if no go at all) or a part of your layout isn't getting good power due to bad rail joint, a defective feeder or too few feeders.
Good luck and let us know what happens after you remove the insulated rail joiners.
-- D
the fact that you can run the engine at all tells me you don't have a dead short on the line. remove all your feeders except one set, and remove the insulated rail joiners as well. put the track back together and see where it stalls. you most likely have a rail joiner not making contact at that point, or the track is dirty. run the engine back the other way and see where it stops. that is most likely another joiner not making connection. using a set of clip on test leads you can jumper around the affected joints and see which one has failed.
if you add another set of feeders between those two points, in the dead section, it should run.
just be sure you have the feeders wired to the proper rail or you will get a dead short. or as an alternative, you can solder the failed joiners to the rails, assuming you aren't using the steel (black roadbed) track.
Keystone
Jeff is right on. I have two reverse loops as you are describe and had trouble with one loop. Come to find out I ran my finger along the rails with a little pressure and found my loose joiner. It may also be the connection under the insulated track section may not be secured all the way and when the loco rolls over it it separates the plug from the connector. That happened also.
I also run my multi meter around probing each section of track. although you will not get a true reading it will show (mine did) about 2 to 3 amps on the hot tracks then drop to zero on the dead spot. I also paid attention to the meter showing me negative side or positive side so I could run extra feeders on my longer loop. Doneldon had suggested this before and it works well. Just tap into the out side of the wiring from your reverser and attach feeders there.
Jerry
Joe,
From how you describe your track plan, it is a Dog Bone track plan, with no cross overs or turnouts.
If this is your set up then there is no reversing units or insulated joiners needed. If your plan is different then you need to post a diagram of the plan.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss115/kengprice/Projects/dogbonetrackplan_zps86cce307.jpg)
Ken
Keystone never posted pics but here's his original post which sounds like reversing loops.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,23534.0.html
Jerry
He needs to post a track plan. "A picture is worth a thousand words" applies in this case.
Keystone
Could this be close to your track plan.Let us know.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l499/jeborne/keystone_zps7a83fba8.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/jeborne/media/keystone_zps7a83fba8.jpg.html)
Jerry
Jerry's latest post of the simple dogbone is it . My track is a series of over and under double track so more complicated but mine streched out is a "Dog Bone". No cross over that I see on his simplified. Now, I have to Thank, West Bound, Jerry,Ken,Jward and Donaldson for the responses.
The problem is solved. At 88 years I'm getting a little dull above the neck area. You guys got me to get my , what's left, thinking cap on. I removed all the wiring, and the auto reverse. Then started all over . Immediately, the DCC juice shorted out. I found a razor saw laying across the track, removed it but was still shorting. AH Ha maybe something else jumping the rails. Visual inspection did not find anything. However, I then took a strong magnet and probed it down between rails. I use long thin nails to keep track in place during assembly. Lo and behold, the magnet found the nail partially concealled by a tie. Removed it , plugged DCC in, put engine on track and runs the complete circuit as it should. I guess I have to admit that age has caught up with me. You guys got me thinking - thanks so much. I'm a happy Engineer again. BTW, didn't I see in one of the messages that one of you is from Pittsburgh Pa ? I'm from near Greensburg.
Great Forum , Thanks Again !............Joe
That track plan has the potential for two reverse loops depending on whether and how you use the two crossovers.
If you do not use the crossovers, you have a dog bone and no reverse loop.
Use either one of the crossovers to go around a loop then you have a reverse loop caused by using the crossover(s).
I'm not up with DCC and reverse loops but will use them when I build by new staging yards as the railway grows. Right now I use temporary through staging. I'm sure you will get good advice from others on this group familiar with DCC reverse loop wiring.
The best advice I can give you right now? Buy a book on how to wire a model railroad for DCC that includes reverse loop wiring, Wye tail track wiring, frog wiring and any other special wiring that comes up when using DCC. I know I'll buy a book when the time comes and I've been modeling railroading for 50+ years.
Joe, great!
I have done the small piece of metal laying across the rail thing also, as I am sure many others here have done.
Ain't it fun. ::) :D
Model trains that is, not the ??? things.
Joe-
I'm happy to hear that you are running again. Don't let anyone try to tell you that you have a reverse loop just because the trains reverse direction; as long as the track doesn't go through a turnout getting back to itself there is no reverse loop. Some folks will use the term a little loosely, meaning the track "loops" around 180o and then goes the other direction, but that's not a reverse loop. I know that some of the language can be a bit fussy at times, but we don't communicate accurately if we use the words too loosely.
-- D
Quote from: Doneldon on June 08, 2013, 10:23:37 PM
Joe-
Don't let anyone try to tell you that you have a reverse loop just because the trains reverse direction; as long as the track doesn't go through a turnout getting back to itself there is no reverse loop.
Didn't I say that below? :)
Quote from: rogertra on June 09, 2013, 02:14:01 AM
Quote from: Doneldon on June 08, 2013, 10:23:37 PM
Joe-
Don't let anyone try to tell you that you have a reverse loop just because the trains reverse direction; as long as the track doesn't go through a turnout getting back to itself there is no reverse loop.
Didn't I say that below? :)
Roger-
As I did on June 7, before there was speculation about the "potential" for
two reverse
loops after he showed us a track plan with none. Do you remember who brought
that up???
-- D
Joe
Like finding a needle in a hay stack.
I am surprised that the auto reverser didn't pick up the short from the nail. The light on the module would have went out or blinked. Your loco would have still stopped but the light would have not been steadily glowing.
Roger and Dennis
Your both right in a way.
Roger is correct a pic is worth a thousand words.
In this case I think Joe had the wrong pic or I missed something. I believe he meant Kens post.
QuoteJerry's latest post of the simple dogbone is it . My track is a series of over and under double track so more complicated but mine streched out is a "Dog Bone". No cross over that I see on his simplified.
As Roger noted with the two crossovers in my pic there is potential for two reverse loops.
Either way it was nailed by Joe. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jerry
All....No explanation for the short disappearing when I had the auto reverser and insulated joiners in the system. As before the Engine ran good untill hitting the isolated sections. Only thing I can think of, is that the nail shorting must have been intermitting. I'm sure that placed a "bug" in my thinking.
If I may continue, Now that I have the main juice problem solved, I might be causing another,I want to install a crossover, 2 switches to get from one track to the other , immediately I see a short, so I would isolate the track where the 2 switches meet ( insulated rail joiners in the cross track) Do I get beyond this problem, if I wire up the auto reverser that is now surplus, solving the potential shorting and get smooth running ? I hate to solder wires experimenting.
Joe
no, merely insulating the crossover between the two switches will not prevent a short. there must be a section completely isolated from the rest of the layout, wired through the autoreverser (dcc) or an auxiliary reverse switch (dc or dcc).....
btw, I am the one from outside Pittsburgh. rankin to be exact. I believe ebtnut is also from the area.
Guess I'm in trouble again. My plan is to install a right hand switch to a right hand switch. (Sort of back to back )the straight sections on both switches parallel. I'm pretty sure I know what you are saying. I have to put a section between the 2 switches. I come from way back and this DCC has me floored. I seldom experienced troubles or could figure them out with the old DC. But what a fantastic improvement. I was doing "G' scale when this DCC came on board. I could send a picture by email but not sure how to do it here!
H-0 got a great kickoff back in early 40's when parties from this area were among the best.
Sure thank you for your help.
Joe
Joe
QuoteGuess I'm in trouble again. My plan is to install a right hand switch to a right hand switch.
Trouble? noway, more fun,yes.
I found using the #6 crossover was cheaper and easier than using two #6 switches separate assuming you are using EZ track. If you do add crossovers or the switches you will then have use for the reverse modules you purchased.
Where I believe responders got confused is in your original post you stated you had crossovers when you didn't. It sounds like you have a figure eight double dogbone that goes over and under.
To post a pic you will need an outside source such as photobucket (which is free)
Once you establish an account upload your pics to photobucket and use the IMG tab to copy then paste it to your post.
As you were modeling G when DCC came along I was modeling O. I found DCC in HO a lot more fun and interesting to work with. I have learned plenty on this board and reading Internet links and books. You never stop learning.
Jerry
Quote from: Doneldon on June 09, 2013, 03:04:57 AM
Quote from: rogertra on June 09, 2013, 02:14:01 AM
Quote from: Doneldon on June 08, 2013, 10:23:37 PM
Joe-
Don't let anyone try to tell you that you have a reverse loop just because the trains reverse direction; as long as the track doesn't go through a turnout getting back to itself there is no reverse loop.
Didn't I say that below? :)
Roger-
As I did on June 7, before there was speculation about the "potential" for two reverse
loops after he showed us a track plan with none. Do you remember who brought
that up???
-- D
Looking back, you did indeed. :)
However, I must admit I joined this thread only recently.