Athern Genesis

[Bill Baker]

I know the forum does not allow the bashing of a competitors products, and if my question violates this rule, I do apologize. However this issue has previously been posted on this board and I would like a clarification.  It concerns the running quality of their 4-6-2 Pacific. I understand from previous posts that this engine has problems with the running gear but I don't know if its a fixable item or not.
Question 1: What is the nature of the problem?
Question 2: Do all of the engines in the product line have the same problem or are there now current runs that do not have the problem?
Question 3: Does Athern offer any kind of fix to the problem even though the unit is out of warranty? (It's used)

Mr. B.  If I have violated your rule, I certainly apologize and you can delete this thread if you wish.

Thanks, Bill

[rustyrails]

Bill,
I seriously doubt that an honest discussion violates the "bashing" rule.  We certainly talk a lot about various DCC products here.  Apparently, there was a problem with the drive gear splitting on the Genesis Pacific (and the Mikado, as well).  Look here:

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/67861/832180.aspx#832180

Once the fault is fixed, folks seem to like the engine.  Thanks for brining this topic up.  I was just about to dig mine out of storage, put on the hand rails and install a decoder.  I guess I'll just go ahead and re-gear while I'm at it.

Rusty

[rogertra]

- The gears in both the 2-8-2 and the 4-6-2 split.  They even split in the box before the box is opened.

- Not all engines suffered from this but more than enough did.

- If you contacted Athearn really early in the release of these engines, they may have sent you a replacement set of drivers with axle and gear.  You had to fit it yourself.  Not easy.

- Once Athearn ran out of parts, which was rather quickly, their response to requests for warranty work was, in effect "tough" and they did not honour the warranty, you were left on your own.

There were also other "issues" with both locos. 

- Poor tractive effort due to poor centre of balance. 

- Derailing of front trucks and drivers due to the poor centre of balance. 

- Derailing tenders due to a stiff wiring harness. 

- The wires used to connect the motor with the tender were poorly soldered resulting in the wire(s) breaking at the motor terminal(s).

Detailing was adequate due to the use of cast detail rather  than the more contemporary applied details.  All the above can be fixed, with difficulty in some cases, and the results are a not too bad engine.  Not up to Spectrum standards, but not too bad.

None of the foregoing is "bashing" but is an honest critique.

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

I have 3 Genisis Mikados, I give em Thumbs up so far. all three are B&O and Facotory Painted(i got 1 off ebay, 2 off a friend who gave up trying to make em DCC), The first one I got had the wire problem witht he motor. Athearn was very helpful in giving me directions to remove the boiler to fix it. Instead of just telling me to ship it back. They helped me walk through checking the problem and fixing it on my own which was fairly easy once i was about to get the boiler shell off.

I missed out on the 4-6-2's but am awaiting the re-relase under the Roundhouse Brand.(Thought they have been pushed back 3 times already)

Side note: they also shipped me free of charge a replacement circut bored for an F3B unit i had which started to smoke(realistic i guess, but it didnt smell great)

[Bill Baker]

Thanks to all for your replies.  I'll wait until the Roundhouse version comes out.

Bill

[Atlantic Central]

Bill,

The new roundhouse version, while based on the same tooling, has an all new drive and is being manufactured by a different vender.

The main reason Athearn had so much trouble with the orginal was the original vender went out of business.

Everyone is waiting to see if the new ones are as good as all the rest of athearns products, Genesis Mikes & Pacifics excepted.

I had two that never had a gear problem, but like Roger said they where poorly balanced and too light. After reweighting one I sold the other.

Good move to just wait for the new one.

Sheldon

[Yampa Bob]

FWIW, I have the Roundhouse vintage locos, they are very smooth and quiet. Some may grumble, as they have traction tires. We only use them for short excursion trains, so I have no problem with them.

[pdlethbridge]

They should ban traction tires. If the boiler was cast, you wouldn't need traction tires. The bachmann 4-4-0 and 2-8-0 are good pullers without TTs.

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

Amen! I had one 4-4-0 pulling 12 of the Roundhouse Milk Cars once(even on a slight uphill climb) and it kept up good pace with very little or no slipping at all.

[Yampa Bob]

Since I needed a diminutive vintage in Bumble Bee colors, I took what was available. I was lucky to get the locos separately. Currently they are only available in sets, with NS EZ Track, 4 Overland Cars and Athearn DC controller.

[Atlantic Central]

They should ban traction tires. If the boiler was cast, you wouldn't need traction tires. The bachmann 4-4-0 and 2-8-0 are good pullers without TTs.

Interesting view, just yesterday at an open house of a friends layout, several modelers lamented that the Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 needed traction tires because it pulled so little.

The only thing that should be banned is the idea of banning things.

I do think manufacturers are smart to offer seperate drivers so modelers have a choice. But I like all my traction tire locos and have never had a problem with them.

To each his own, as opposed to those who would impose their will on others.

Sheldon

[pdlethbridge]

I have found that with the bachmann engines, if you push them too hard you'll break them. I feel that traction tires will speed up that process.

[Atlantic Central]

I have found that with the bachmann engines, if you push them too hard you'll break them. I feel that traction tires will speed up that process.

This may well be a valid observation, but it is way different than your other statement.

I have mostly Bachmann steam, so only a few of the "other" brands have traction tires. My smallest Bachmann steamer in the 10 wheeler and I am happy with the performance of all my steam, with and without traction tires.

Such blanket statements about anything are seldom valid, especially in the world of engineering. There are always variables that change the dynamic. Some locos benifit greatly from traction tires, some don't.

Sheldon

[rogertra]

[/quote]

I do think manufacturers are smart to offer seperate drivers so modelers have a choice.

Sheldon
[/quote]

As a non traction tire fan, I agree 100% with the above statement.  Bachmann please note!

[pdlethbridge]

Traction tires have been used, mostly on lower end, light weight trains for years. I have used heavy locos since my first mantua kit in the early 60's It didn't need traction tires then and it still doesn't. Hauling 50 cars was its ads selling point. My latest kit is the Bowser USRA light mike and that doesn't need TT's either. The only locos that might need them are my GE 44 tonner and my spectrum 0-6-0t. But when you get into small engines, you will have a problem with electrical pick-up when TT's are used.
    The new locos with TT's such as some BLI units really don't need them. How many here run prototype length trains on their layouts? If you stay within the parameters of the loco, you will NOT need TT's.
   For steam, I use a simple formula to determine correct train length. I add the number of drivers and trailing truck wheels and divide by 2 for passenger cars and add all wheels and divide by 2 for freight. Most of us have small layouts and that keeps the trains short and keeps the locos from tearing themselves apart.
    For diesels, mine are all the same, 8 car freights, 4 car passenger. As I only have 3 passenger cars, they don't pull them.
    I have no hills, so grades aren't a problem, but the curves are, so trains are kept short. Any way, wheel slip is a good thing and keeps the loco from self destructing.
    If you want to test your engines to see how many cars you can pull, go for it. But please don't fault me when you traction tired loco goes up in smoke because it really wasn't meant to pull that many cars.