my dcc controller

[Robertj668]

I have the Bachmann EZ command and love it. However,  I think I am ready to move on from it.  I am not sure I will go to the dark side and go CV crazy ( I admit it though, I do want to go to the dark side start learning about those CV's it looks and sounds right up my ally)

The BACHMANN EZ COMMAND DYNAMIS WIRELESS CONTROLLER 36505  is what I am looking at now and have been watching them  on eBay go for around $100.  But I have taken a liking to the Super Empire Builder Advanced Set or theSuper Chief Super LocoNet Sets

Yampa Bob- You use 3 EZ commands or did I read that wrong. 

[pdlethbridge]

Ya, but I think he'll be going to the dark side soon.

[Yampa Bob]

Robert,
Yes, I picked up two spares at $60 each on a special event sale. It's been my experience in life that when I find something I really like, it gets discontinued. I think they call it "planned obsolescence". I'm not taking any chances this time.

[pdlethbridge]

oh , and I thought you were heading to the dark side!

[Jim Banner]

The Digitrax Super Chief has one very large advantage over the Super Empire Builder and that is its ability to read back CVs.  The Chief's other advantages over the Super Empire Builder are usually important only if you are using it on a club layout.  Unless you need the extra power to run old, current hog locomotives or to run many double headed trains, the Digitrax Zephyr is a better choice than the Super Empire Builder.  Like the Super Chief, the Zephyr has a full featured command station complete with CV read back and separate programming track.  The Super Empire Builder is based on a booster with basic command station capabilities.  This is reflected in the part numbers of the command stations - the Zephyr is a DCS50 (Digital Command Station 50), the Super Chief uses the DCS100 (Digital Command Station 100) while the Super Empire Builder uses the DB150 (Digital Booster 150.)

Depending on your layout and what you want to do with it, the Zephyr could be a contender as well.  I bought my first Zephyr along with a pair of utility throttles to run a medium sized home layout.  By adding a couple of jump throttles (virtually free) the four fellows I model with and I were each able to operate a train at the same time.  The two jump throttles and the built in throttle of the Zephyr were assigned to switcher service in three of the towns while the two utility throttles were used for through trains that the operators had to follow from room to room.  We had enough power to run the 8 to 10 car trains that single locomotives could pull over the grades in my mountainous railway.  We could have used up to 10 throttles if we had wanted to, but would have been shy on power.

As out operating sessions expanded, we wanted to move more cars and add a couple of additional trains.  More cars meant double heading and more trains meant still more locomotives.  So I finally had to either add a booster or upgrade the command station.  As I was also using the Zephyr with an MRC booster to run an outdoor layout, and on occasion ran both layouts at once, I opted for a DCS200.  This is the command station used in the Super Empire Builder 8 amp version.  I chose this for my indoor layout because it is capable currentwise of running my outdoor layout if my MRC booster should fail.  But the 8 amp rating did mean adding power management hardware to restrict the current fed to the H0 track (8 amps is just too much for H0.)  It was a big step upwards - enough power to run at least 16 locomotives at one time and enough slots to support up to 120 throttles at once, in other words, more than I will ever use.  But a great thing about this step upwards was that I already knew how to use the DCS200 - Digitrax had the good sense to make the Zephyr's operating system virtually identical to the Super Chief's.  Even better, ALL the Digitrax accessories that I had accumulated over the years to go with my Zephyr all work with the Super Chief - the utility throttles, the top of the line DT400 radio throttles (two throttles in once package,) the radio receivers, the infrared receivers, and even the Zephyr itself which can act as a throttle or a 2.5 amp booster or even both at the same time.  (I am not sure if the non-Digitrax jump throttles will work with the Super Chief with a Zephyr in the system - they were a great stop gap measure when I first bought the Zephyr but have since been replaced by Digitrax throttles.)  No planned obsolescence here - all the new goodies that are on Digitrax's horizon will also work with what I have, thanks to Digitrax's commitment to their LocoNet which links them all together.

Do I sound enthusiastic?  You betcha!

Jim

p.s.  In all honesty, I should point out that the E-Z Command is a great starter set - low cost and easy to learn.  But I figure that once a person is past the starter set stage, he/she is probably in a long term relationship with model railroading and should be looking at systems that are willing to make long term commitments as well.

J

[Robertj668]

Jim

Thank you for the very informative information.  The one thing I want a system to do from time to time (when maybe company is over) is to be able to have the train run completely on its own including stopping at stations and having different routes in a sort program mode.  Now that's probably at least a year away before I need to upgrade.

Some people feel its a waste of money upgrading from system to system which in many cases true.  But I have had great like selling my used stuff on eBay or even trading it. 

[jward]

jim,

when i bought my zephyr, i made some inquiries to digitrax and they told me that you can use the zephyr as a booster and throttle with other digitrax command stations. you can also use the jump throttles if you are using the zephyr as the master, and the other unit as the slave. both throttles would be able to pick up and dispatch locomotives in the normal way but all programming would be through the zephyr. in that way, you still have the utility of the jump throttles, with the expanded capacity of the larger unit. that was important to me as the unit i was concidering upgrading to, the empire builder, didn't offer readback from the decoders, and i was experimenting with some pretty elaborate programming at the time.

[Jim Banner]

Sorry, Bob, if I ruffled your feathers.  In my books, what puts you past the starter set stage is the point when a starter set is no longer sufficient to run your layout the way you want to run it.  As you have told us who read this forum, your layout can be run to your satisfaction with your E-Z Command.  No problems there.  As to why E-Z Command is considered a "starter set," that is because it is easy to learn, a real bonus when you are starting out and are busy learning everything else about model railroading at the same time.  E-Z Command is also a starter set because it is an affordable introduction to DCC, usually at a time when your model railroad is suffering from high startup costs.  But low cost and easy learning curve come at a price, namely a reduction in capabilities.  That in turn defines E-Z Command as a starter set by saying what it is not - it is not a full featured advanced set.  This does not imply that you will ever need an advanced set, no matter how long you are in model railroading.  Just like you don't need to buy a Harley if a Honda will do what you want to do.

However, if you want to do more than your railroad, or more specifically, its operating system, will let you do, then you do need to go past the starter set to do it.  You may never reach that point, but if you do, be careful which system you choose.  I started off in DCC with an MRC Command 2000, a starter set which was simple to use and could run my railroad as it was at that time.  However, times change.  A few years later, my layout had grown and I wanted to do more with it.  But MRC no longer supported the Command 2000, they had switched to another system with no compatibility.  I briefly considered their new system (which also was replaced by yet another incompatible system a few years later) but fortunately went with Digitrax, based on their history of backward and forward compatibility.  That means I can add pieces to my existing DCC system as my railroad grows and what I want to do with it develops.  I do not have to replace every single piece every few years because the manufacturer has changed his mind.  My present H0 layout, which celebrates its 25 birthday this year, is still growing and my use of it is still developing.  And, God willing, this will go on for some more years still.

Jim

_{Edit: remove "time after time" and "likely to remain so"}   

[Jim Banner]

Thanks, Jeffery, for letting us know.  That makes sense and may explain why people who upgrade their Zephyr by buying a DB150 (Super Empire Builder command station) usually use the Zephyr as the command station and the DB150 in booster mode.

To properly understand the Zephyr, people need to think of it as three pieces - a command station, a throttle, and a booster - all in one box.  As part of a larger system, you can use any one, two or three of those pieces.

Robertj668, one of the ways of automating your layout is to use an old computer, a program like JMRI or Railroad and Co., and an interface between your command station and computer.  For Digitrax, that interface would be a PR-3 or a Locobuffer-USB  or some others.  This method allows a great deal of flexibility in what you can program the trains to do.  But the more you want to do, the more hardware you will require to tell the computer where the trains are and what other things are happening on the layout that may affect train operation (turnout positions, conflicting track assignments etc.)

For simpler things, like station stops, it is possible to use decoders that implement the stop on dc command.  This will allow you to slow a train to a stop at a preprogrammed deceleration rate simply by switching the stopping block of track to dc when you want the train to stop and switching it back to DCC when you want the train to accelerate at a programmed rate up to a preset speed.  I believe Lenz is one of the few manufacturers of stop on dc decoders.

With Digitrax you can use a DB150 to send a stop all trains command to a stopping block when you want them to stop in that block and your regular command station to send signals to the same stopping block when you want them to go again.  This, by the way, is one of the few cases where you can have two command stations controlling the same track, albeit on a alternating basis.  The advantage of the Digitrax method is that is allows you to use any type of decoder.  The downside is the price of a DB150, unless you already have one as a booster or as a spare.  You can use a single DB150 to control multiple stopping blocks.  The only other hardware you need is one relay per stopping block to switch the block between the DB150 and the regular command station and some method of detecting when the train(s) should stop and when it/they should go again.  This could be as simple as stopping the east bound train at the station when it is detected as being on the station siding and keeping it stopped until the west bound train is detected as having passed the station.

Jim

[Yampa Bob]

Jim, this may very well be my longest post ever.

No, your earlier post did not "ruffle my feathers". However, I will admit that the statement in your next post did. (I detected a slight twitch of one tail feather)

You wrote:  "As you have told us time after time, your layout can be run to your satisfaction with your E-Z Command and is likely to remain that way."

I realize we are separated by a common language, but down here that has the connotation of "I'm tired or bored of hearing it". but since you used the word "us", it implies that "We are tired of hearing it". When someone says "we" or "us", I usually ask if they have a mouse in their pocket. 

There are thousands of modelers using EZ Command, I don't hear them objecting to my repeated support of the system. I also don't recall there being any set  limits about stating preferences. New members show up with the same concern about where to start, and the discussion starts all over again.

Now we have a "double standard", you know, when it's ok for one person to repeatedly speak their preferences ad infinitum but not ok for another to do likewise.

Think about it, is this any different from the fact that time after time you and others have extolled the virtues of advanced systems and elaborated on the limitations of EZ Command?  I have never criticized other's choice of how to operate their railroad, in fact I specifically said that I support you and others who enjoy the greater capabilities of advanced systems 100%. Now wouldn't it be nice to support me likewise in my success with EZ Command, perhaps as an example for others considering DCC?

Early in life, Dale Carnegie taught me to never start a comment with "I disagree", or the worst "You're wrong".  You once mentioned that you and I disagreed on certain things. I never say to someone "I disagree with you", that would be counterproductive as it would imply that I'm right and they're wrong. I have only stated my preferences. It would be pretty boring if everyone had the exact same layout, the same system, and the same plan of operations.

Next, you cannot validate the comment, "likely to remain that way". Have I not mentioned before that if and when I reach the point of needing or wanting an advanced system I would buy one?  Many people have a tendency to be easily bored with what they have, or their status in life, they are always looking for "something better", or as they say "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence".  Before (or if) I move up, I intend to squeeze the last drop of usefullness from my EZ Command.

"Am I enthusiastic? You betcha".  Pardon my plagiarism, (thanks spell check)

Neither you or anyone else can predict what I am "likely to do".  That is for me to know, and others to find out, if I decide to tell them. As my wife just reminded me, I don't even know what I may do next week, as I may change my mind depending on circumstances. (if you're curious, she has to type many of my posts)

For all you or anyone else knows I may already have an advanced system but choose not to boast about it. After all, this is the Bachmann Forum, though judging from the posts, it might be more aptly named "Digitrax Forum". (I see few comments about Dynamis).  I can say that I have done enough research and study so the learning curve will be fairly short, or as they say "piece of cake".

When irritated, I usually count to 100, in this case I probably counted to 10,000, it required a lot of soul searching before replying. I deleted my previous post, but would like to repeat one concern. Other forums treat you like a second class railroader if they learn you use EZ Command. Recently I have sensed a hint of that atmosphere on this forum.

You can have "the last word", as there is nothing more for me to say on this matter. I hope you feel I have explained my feelings in a respectful tone, but as people here know "I say what I mean, and mean what I say."

I hope you also realize how difficult it is for me to hit the post button, but here goes. 

"Live long and prosper".

[Jim Banner]

Thanks, Bob, for the invitation to respond.  That was the second time this week I have been hunted down by the "objectionable language" police.  I was unaware that "time after time" was objectionable to some.  To me, "time after time" just means "many times," no more, no less, no compliment, no complaint.  And I included that comment not to complain about how often you have talked about E-Z Command but rather to remind other readers that you are a staunch supporter of E-Z Command.  A sort of counterbalance to my answering questions about Digitrax.  As you say, separated by a common language.

Because you found it objectionable, I edited out "time after time."  I also made changes to indicate who "we" were (no mice were hurt in this exercise.)  Thirdly, I removed the "likely to remain that way" because you felt it too was objectionable.  I must admit I dithered on this one, but in the end, I felt I might have misinterpreted your intention not to buy a more advanced system in the near future as a continuing satisfaction with your present system.

To set the record straight, you have never heard me object to your repeated support of E-Z Command, nor are you likely too.  I, too, am a an E-Z Command owner, supporter and user and have repeatedly pointed out its advantages as a starter set, right here on this forum.  And when I am teaching model railroading, I like to take along my E-Z Command when I get to the class on DCC.  It demonstrates the fundamental concept behind DCC (independent control of multiple trains on a single track) without intimidating the half of the class that has trouble programming their VCR's.  One E-Z Command, one oval of E-Z Track, two locomotives, and the concept sells itself.

Jim       

[pdlethbridge]

Like a telephone, Bob knows where the buttons are and it is easier for him to run his trains. Depending on a persons needs and capabilities, EZ command is a good system. It can't program CV's. So what. If you can't read the screen to change the CV, why bother. Keep those trains a runnin, Bob.

[Yampa Bob]

My secretary has retired for the evening, so I must keep this brief.

Thanks, Jim. Open and honest communication truly does build stronger relationships. 

Paul,
Yep, we'll keep them running.   

[OkieRick]

Hey you three Olde Fartes, does this mean not one of you wants to buy my Dynamis?  If I can't sell it by the 27th I'll have to take it to the local once a year train show / swap meet / buy it / get it fixed / or consign it meet.

Happy Rails,
OkieRick

[boomertom]

I own an E-Z Command. It is a good basic system that allows multiple train operation without complicated wiring; it provides sound functions and lighting functions.

I also operate both Digitrax ( not a Zephyr) and MRC, both of which provide walk around capabilities.

To respond to the original question, in my opinion save the money and get started with DCC with the E-Z Command. As your interests grow, you can always move up at a later time.

Remember Bob's rule number 2 and have fun.

Tom