Sparking

[MB425]

Please excuse the stupidity in this question. Yesterday I was attending a show with the modular club I belong to and was operating my WBB GP9. For a little fun I put all 22 volts the Z4000 had to give on the track so the train could really move on the 30' - 40' straights. At full throttle, I noticed some serious sparking coming from, what looked like, the pick-up rollers. A friend let me test his new WBB SD-45 to see if it was just my engine. His engine showed the same symptoms. I came to the conclusion it was the track and we wiped it down but no improvement. We did oil the pick-up rollers on both engines that morning but made sure we didn't get oil on the flat part of the roller itself. At home I have no way setting up a test track like we had yesterday although at the leisurely speeds I run at home, there is no sparking problems.

Any ideas? I have a brand new WBB 671 Turbine on the way from Justrains and I hope I don't have the same issue. Thanks for the help and sorry for the stupid question.

[MB425]

Just did some testing with the very little real estate I have. I ran as fast as I could without rocketing off the table and the engine was sparking from the wheels and rollers. I wiped down the track and tested again only to get the same results. This only occurs at high speeds as I said above.

Thanks again.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear MB,

See Jim Banner's reply about 2/3 of the way down this thread:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8463.0.html

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[MB425]

Thanks for the help Joe!

[3rail]

Dear MB425,

22 volts is a little excessive.  I would recommend keeping it under 18 volts or you may damage the electronics.

Regards,

3rail

[DominicMazoch]

22 Volts to the track is going to send a locomotive to emulate the Acela in speed.   Higher speeds, and more bouncing and resistance with the contact rollers and the center rail.   Leave those experiments to Gomez Adams!  The Borg are right:  Resistance is futile!

[Joe Satnik]

Just another thought...

3rail,

Any chance there's a MOV or some other kind of over-voltage protection across the track inputs?

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[MB425]

Thanks again folks. After testing each engine from my operating fleet, I have discovered each engine to have a sparking issue (Williams, MTH, and Lionel engines) when operating at higher speeds. I'm going to try a product called "Railzip" to see what happens. Does anyone think I should just replace the track (which is pretty new)?

[Joe Satnik]

Dear MB,

It may be that your engine needs cleaning and lubing.  Excessive voltage and current are needed to overcome the drag of a dirty-sticky drive-line. 

Another test:

1) Tape up one of the center rail roller arms and run the loco around the track. (That roller shouldn't touch the center rail.)  Note any difference in running.  Don't run it too long.   

2.) Remove the tape in step 1.

3.) Tape up the other center rail roller arm and run the loco around the track.  Note any difference in running.  Again, don't run it too long.

4.) Remove the tape in step 3.

If the engine stumbles or doesn't run, the taped pickup is part of the GOOD pickup circuit.  The other pickup would be the part of the BAD (or intermittent) pickup circuit. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik     

[MB425]

Joe,

Thanks for the help. I taped up the rollers but even taped up, they still hit the center rail slightly. I don't think it is the engine as each one of my engines (MTH PS2, Williams and Lionel) exhibit the same symptoms. I believe it is the track. I did buy (and apply today) a product called Railzip that supposedly aids in electrical conductivity and reduces sparking. It takes a while (overnight) to set up but tomorrow afternoon when I have time to test, I will and report back. If it doesn't work, I will replace the track with new stuff.

Thanks for the help.

[MB425]

Yesterday, I spent about two hours driving to different hobby shops in my area until I got to one that had Railzip. I came home and applied it and just tested it this morning. Unfortunately, the problem appears to be worse. I applied the Railzip to the center rail only. In addition to the sparking appearing to be worse, I get a very strong smell of ozone which I didn't have before (at least you couldn't smell it after one lap around the layout).

I've decided to return the turbine. This is following a long string of discouraging problems with my layout and trains and I feel that I just need to take everything apart and step away. *Sigh*


Thanks for your help everyone.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear MB,

Since the symptoms are the same across all your different makes/models of locos, perhaps that is the nature of the pickup roller system.  Perhaps the rollers just can't roll fast enough at that speed to roll along instead of slip along the center rail.

Load down your engine (multiple cars or high drag - hard to pull cars) and run at 18 volts.  Do you see the same sparking?

Though it probably isn't a problem across all your locos, there was an earlier thread that had a roller seizing up in a pickup arm.  The roller expanded from the heat, causing it to rub up against the sides of its axle mounts.

Is there an ammeter anywhere in the system?

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik